Video: Top 20 Super Middleweights since 1989

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Rumsfeld, May 17, 2017.


  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I did have Ottke on my list, #8. :thumbsup:

    And as for Eubank, I can definitely see a case for having him (and Ottke) higher than I had them. I think it's subjective though, and in the case of Eubank, I don't think he was ever really considered the best in the division at any point. Perhaps that's the product of American bias, and the fact that these fighters didn't get a lot of exposure state-side.
     
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  2. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon. Full Member

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    That's just the problem of coming up in a strong era, always the bridesmaid and never the bride. Eubank never got to be first because he shared an era with Jones, Toney, Nunn, and Benn. It must have been a peach for Harold Johnson to share an era with Archie Moore too.
     
  3. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'm glad one of the more obscure division's is getting the attention, personally.
     
  4. stiflers mum

    stiflers mum Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :ARMS1:
     
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  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I'll never understand that.

    From what I've read about Dariusz over the years, how tough he was etc, that seemed completely out of character.
     
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think Jirov would have been a much harder fight for Roy.
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    If Roy had campaigned at SMW for most of his career, there would be no doubt he'd be universally considered the best SMW of all time.

    As it stands, it has to be Joe for me. Although I have to have Roy as the number 1 on a P4P basis. He's the greatest fighter I've ever seen at the weight. I don't see how any version of Joe or anyone else would have beaten him in his mid 20's.
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Eubank was content to not fight guys like Roy and Toney though.
     
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  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Michalczewski interview from 2005

    'The countdown is running. Only four days until the boxing spectacle before 16000 fans in the Color Line Arena. In the second part of the big MOPO interview the tiger talks about his popularity, Klitschko, vodka and love.

    MOPO: How do you explain your great popularity, which has risen enormously over the last two years?

    Michalczewski: I think that's because I've always stayed. I was usually nice, sometimes an ass - but I never disguised, never played a role. This has paid off in the long run. I think Germany, especially Hamburg, loves me. Me, the Polish, it's crazy! It's not normal what's happening here with me.

    MOPO: What happens to you?

    Michalczewski: Sometimes I stand at the zebras tire and have red. There, drivers stop and waved me friendly. I'll get a lump in my throat. Or the police will stop me if I drive without a belt. Then they say: "Dariusz, please buckle!", And let me continue. This is, so to speak, my immunity.

    MOPO: The tiger can not be without boxes. Can not boxing without the tiger?

    Michalczewski: I think boxing needs me. Nowadays, there are too few guys like Rocky (Graciano Rocchigiani, d. Red) or me who have corners. There are not enough real champions. The new generation boxer is too smooth.

    MOPO: What do you think is a champion?

    Michalczewski: Being a world champion is one thing. You will be a champion through the knighthood of the audience, professionals and media. Champions have charisma, are personalities and have done in the ring special.

    MOPO: Is your former stable colleague Vitali Klitschko, the WBC World Heavyweight Champion, a champion?

    Michalczewski: Not yet. This still takes a bit. He has yet to prove himself. He is only known by his defeat against Lennox Lewis. If you lose your biggest fight, you are not a champion. Defeat remains defeat.

    MOPO: Who is the bigger number: the tiger or the Klitschkos?

    Michalczewski: If you put the Klitschkos on top of each other, the four meters are high and maybe bigger than me. Honestly: Wladimir has lost twice by knockout, Vitali has only been a world champion for a year. I was nine years world champion. This can not be compared.

    MOPO: You won world titles at light-heavyweight and cruiserweight and there was even talk of you seriously contemplating fighting at heavyweight at one stage when you were chasing a fight with your elusive American rival Roy Jones Jr. This is something that perplexed me somewhat as you never looked like the biggest of light-heavyweights to me. How difficult was it for you to make 175 and could you have ever got down to 168?

    Michalczewski: Yes it is indeed true that I was never the biggest light-heavyweight. In fact, if you look at my fights you will see that most of the time my opponents were bigger than me. Making super-middleweight for me wouldn't have been a problem as it was my natural weight. Truth be told, I only fought at light-heavyweight out of respect for Super Joe [Joe Calzaghe] and The Phantom [Sven Ottke]. Those guys were my idols''

    MOPO: Like the Klitschkos, did you think about leaving the universe and promoting yourself?

    Michalczewski: No, it was never an issue. Of course, there were always differences of opinion, but they are in the best families. I have never felt betrayed or exploited by Klaus-Peter Kohl. You have to negotiate too hard. Meanwhile, I know exactly what is being played.

    MOPO: You said you were grown up recently. How does this manifest itself?

    Michalczewski: I have grown more mature over the years, live more consciously and know that I am responsible. I think more about what I'm doing and what it's impacting.

    MOPO: Has the wild tiger become a brave lap cat?

    Michalczewski: Honest answer?

    MOPO: Of course!

    Michalczewski: I'm still a bully like I used to be. I am still wild and love horny parties. But I've learned that everything has its time. I enjoy in moderation. That was different before. There I sometimes celebrated three days in a row. I have times durchgesoffen two days at a time in the crack. When I came to Hamburg, I was still a boy, I ran into the city with eyes, ears and arms open. I was greedy for fun.

    MOPO: And after alcohol ...

    Michalczewski: I drink only red wine now. I have become a connoisseur. I used to drink vodka, but nobody should drink it. This is not a drink. That does not even taste. Everyone who drinks vodka distracts his face and shakes himself. That's crazy. Vodka makes drunk and aggressive. I insulted my own friends in the Suff. That is bad. Vodka is poison to me. Unfortunately, I only noticed at the age of 34 ...

    MOPO: What part does your friend Patrizia have in mind that you have calmed down?

    Michalczewski: A very big one. We've been together for five years, and she knows all about me. She is my best friend, my buddy. When I go around the houses with my friends, she is there. She also says: Stop the face! No one dares to do that. But I need someone to give me my forehead.

    MOPO: You have recently been divorced by your wife Dorota. Do you want to marry again?

    Michalczewski: We think about it. Also about children. But you have to think very carefully. We must have time for it. It should be romantic with an engagement, a beautiful wedding and a honeymoon. It is supposed to be the most beautiful day in our lives.

    MOPO: How about Hamburg as a place of the wedding?

    Michalczewski: I could imagine that. That would be great. Hamburg is kind of my city. Here I made my driving license and lost, I became world champion, I am divorced, I have been in the Puff for the first time, I know almost every pub - that connects. Maybe I'll be an honorary citizen.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  10. KelandBeave

    KelandBeave Fab 4 Full Member

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    Thank god Danny Green wasn't on that list
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    The results have played out based on the criteria/formula that he's used.

    Whilst I respect that criteria/formula, you only have to see his earlier LHW rankings to see how flawed it is. But still, I don't mean any disrespect when I say that though, and I really appreciate the effort that he's made. Also, as we both know, it's incredibly subjective, and it's extremely hard to rank these guys. So using a formula gives you a platform to work from. I wouldn't like to try and rank them. So I'd like to thank him for the thread.

    Regarding Eubank, I agree with you. I definitely think that he should rank higher.

    Regarding Collins, I wouldn't put him ahead of Roy or Andre. Neither on a H2H/P4P basis, or looking at their actual resumes.

    We've discussed his wins over Eubank and Benn many times. It looks good on paper, because they were 2 great fighters. But on closer inspection, they're not that impressive. Eubank was faded at that point, and they only had a rematch because their first fight was so close. Benn came out of retirement to face Collins, and he was also faded, even more so than Eubank. And the only reason they had a rematch, was due to how their first fight ended. Personally, I don't see how you can give credit to Collins for winning that first fight. It was on a technicality, due to Benn having to withdraw due to a twisted ankle after just 4 rounds. So despite what it says on paper, I could only really credit him for beating Eubank twice, and Benn once.

    Those wins along with one over Seillier, weren't better than the following wins of Andre's and Roy's:


    Andre Ward:


    Abraham

    Bika

    Kessler

    Froch

    Dawson (Chad was weight drained, but if you're going to credit Collins with his first win over Benn, then we've got to list it)


    Roy Jones:


    Malinga

    Toney

    Thornton

    Sosa

    Lucas
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I thought Eubank was the best in the division for a fair period of time. He was doing alot more than Toney in my opinion and I dont think that could be argued, but I guess as you say Eubank probably didnt get the US exposure, but I rate Eubanks SMW resume above many with IBF champ (relinquished) Rocchigiani, the Benn fight, Malinga etc.
    I didnt notice Ottke on your list at 8. My bad.
    Ottke resume wise at SMW to me could be argued with Eubanks. I think Eubank and Ottke have a good argument for the #2 spot, but have Eubank getting it.
    Seems many try and say Ottke lost several fights but alot of that seems very fabricated to me, often by posters who havent seen the fights. Ottke beat future WBA champ Mundine, IBF champ Brewer, WBA champ Mitchell, Branco who won a LHW title, G Johnson when prime who won a LHW title as well as some other very good wins
     
  13. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Can you shorten that a bit?
     
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Think Rummy deserves credit for thread of the year :jump::ole:
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    You let yourself down so badly with these types of responses.

    Shorten it down?

    Can't you read 2 mins of text?

    What's wrong with you?
     
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