Sorry, but Ward was as green as they came when facing a prime, non injured Kessler who was the best SMW in the planet at the time. What did he do before then besides facing a bloated shot Miranda and winning gold at the Olympics? Slappy Joe was in the best run of his career when facing a one armed, injured Kessler who injured his hand 3 weeks before training camp. His hand was so bad that he had to miss out on valuable sparring time.. LOL http://www.boxingnews24.com/2007/11/kessler-hand-injured-prior-to-calzaghe-bout/ I don't understand your analogy with Bika, what is Bika to you? Ward didn't look as impressive vs Smith like George Groves did, what's your point? Bika was a tune up fight for Ward after Dirrell dropped out of the Super 6 and Ward having a hellish schedule leading up. To Ward, it was a tune up fight, to Slappy Joe it was one of the biggest wins of his career LMFAO.
You are right in that Ward like Jones may go on to be a great P4P fighter, but im not sure I would put either into a SMW top 5 as there are so many who have been there for longer periods of time racking up great wins whether only on paper or in practice. I couldnt deny for resume Calzaghe, Eubank or Ottke top 5 places
You could spin it that way , you could also argue that the Kessler fight was the biggest fight of Joe's career and it was the opportunity to to eradicate all the doubts that were cast over him. His reputation and entire career was on the line and he had to deliver and on the biggest night of his life in which he produced the best fight of his life against his best opponent. Ward was very green and didn't have any experience at championship level when he had Kesslers guts for garters and stopped him without ever losing a minute of any round in the process. Kessler went onto to achieve his best career win after that loss so its fair to say that Ward beat a still prime Kessler.
See how you have back tracked and exposed your bias lol. So you are pointing to Ward not looking as impressive compared to other fighters against certian opponents, but use that as your agenda when talking about Ward and Calzaghe. Kessler said straight after the fight that the hand wasnt a problem. Ward was not green. He had a great amateur career and been moved well in the pros. Kessler had eye problems before the S6. Why deny that? Calzaghe fought most of his fights with damaged hands and were probably far worse than Kesslers. His hands were ruined. Why do you think Bika was one of Calzaghes biggest wins? Ward was facing Calzaghes leftovers and you are talking about a hellish schedule?
Ottke never beat the #1 SMW of his era. Thats a huge Red mark. Huge. Ward beat his #1 with a busted hand. Okkta don't have any wins as good as Froch , Kessler , Abhram and Dawson
Ward didnt stop Kessler You could argue Kessler was Calzaghes biggest SMW win and I wouldnt knock that, but it wasnt to eradicate any doubts at all. Calzaghe had already at that time carved a very big impressive SMW resume. even if Calzaghe had of retired before the Lacy win, his SMW resume would still be impressive with Eubank, Woodhall, Reid, Veit x2, Brewer, Mitchell who are all fighters to have held a SMW title, then add in some other decent names like Mkertchyan, Starie, Sheika.
Ottke was considered #1 for some time though. He beat Mitchell and there are some links that have him as champ with that. Froch never beat the top SMW of his era but did overall good work and has a good resume. Ottke beat Mitchell who was a 2 time SMW champ who beat Liles who was arguably a greater SMW than any Froch, Kessler, Abraham or Dawson beat. Ottke has wins I rate higher than Dawson and Abraham. The Froch win I rate as similar to the Froch win. The Kessler win I hold a bit above any of Ottkes but it is about the overall bulk at SMW and with what you are saying its like holding Buster Douglas resume over some top HWs because of the Tyson win
Past it Liles was at the end of his career and never won another fight when Mitchel beat him. Ottke beat a Mitchel 4 years later , after he had already lost to Giard and would lose another two fights in a row after the Ottke loss. Ottke got the win against past prime Mitchel by split decision . Most felt he lost the fight. Mitchels record after that fight was 4- 9 - 0. Calzahe was ranked #2 when Okte was ranked #1 , so even though Calzaghe was his #2 at the time , he was still his main rival in the division and Ottke never wanted any part of him. Okke didn't have an impressive career. It was carefully managed and his fights were rigged to his favour.
I think you're confused, buddy. Let me try to help you out here.. I said that a green Ward outclassed a non injured Kessler in his first world title fight, in no way, shape, or form did I compare Slappy Joe's fight with Ward. I simply stated that Ward BEAT a non injured Kessler, which is true. Slappy Joe didn't have the luxury of doing that since he beat a injured, one armed Kessler. Please show me PROOF that Kessler was injured during or before the build up with Ward, otherwise you're just making **** up. I'm not with that making **** up stuff, I provide cold hard FACTS. Martinez said straight after the fight that his knees weren't a problem..... What's your point? Like I said before, what has Ward done before his fight with Kessler? He beat a shot Miranda and won gold at the Olympics, he wasn't favored to beat Kessler let alone win the whole tournament. Another failed analogy, what do Slappy Joe's brittle hands have to do with Kessler injuring his hand before he fought Slappy? Slappy Joe developed a slapping technique over the years due to his brittle hands which is why his name is Slappy Joe... Kessler literally injured his hand 3 weeks before the fight and didn't have time to properly prepare, I really don't know why you're denying this fact when I've shown you proof above.
It's a very young division, so the talent pool isn't as impressive compared to some of the more historic weight classes. I don't think it's a stretch to say that resume-wise, Ward might have the best victories out of anyone, including Calzaghe. Joe had a very lengthy reign at SMW, so for those that rank him as the # 1 guy, I can understand that line of reasoning. I believe his biggest wins were against Lacy, Reid and an undefeated Kessler at 168 lbs. I think Ward achieved the better wins. He literally had to take on all comers in the SMW tournament, so for me that tips the scales in his favor. Joe's best win IMO is over Hopkins at LHW. I don't rate the Jones win at all since Roy was about 7 years or so past his prime at that juncture.
Prime Kessler > Broken Kessler Lacy(pre joe) > Froch(at the time of facing Lacy, Froch was just a contender) Reid > AA(a blown up MW) Prime Bika > Past prime Bika Eubank > Drained Dawson Veit > Boone
Calzaghe beat a drained Eubank . He moved out of the weight two years earlier. Eubank also only took the fight on two weeks notice.