Ali 1974 vs Joshua of today, who wins?

It looks like we do and that's fair enough.

Although, I would add that Joshua was already puffing and his work rate dropping, before he got tagged in the fifth. I would also suggest that the left that Wlad caught him with was not a relatively big shot so, I'd be concerned if it was enough to have stifled his output in this way.

Further, Joshua's workrate halved in the ensuing rounds, 6 to 10, with another rally coming in the 11th. So, based on what I've seen, so far, and your reference to Joshua's "onslaught", it's not really that much of an exaggeration. And, even though I don't mind admitting using the numbers I have for some effect, they are actually correct.

All-in-all, we will need to see where Joshua can go. In the meantime, the weight of evidence is for Ali.

Joshua's power is alluring to the spectator but it's not like we haven't seen big, powerful punchers brought to their knees before, by superior boxers. In this case, the superior boxer in question happens to be a Top-10 All-Time Pound-for-Pound Great.

In any event, its going to be a lot of fun watching events unfold.

 

Perry reeks of effeminate sissyness!

I have never made any attempt to hide the fact I am no historian nor have I ever boxed or even trained. On the 2nd page of this very thread I admitted I was a novice and my opinion could be swayed. I still have eyes and these eyes see things a certain way, maybe I am wrong about this and lots of other things related to boxing but I just call it how I see it, I don't know why it bothers you so much - if my opinion is so worthless then just ignore it, but consider that there are others who do have the credentials which I am lacking who see this hypothetical match-up resulting in the same way I do.

 

Is this thread serious ? A 41 year old Klitschko who had been inactive for seventeen months almost beat him. You think because he weights 250 with all the suppliments he beats Ali ? Seriously ?

 

Jof.....then ACT like a novice as you admit and obviously are. Come to learn not to proclaim you know NOTHING of the sport and THEN pretend you do.

 

The only reason I have a solid opinion on this match-up is because I have discussed it before in depth and did my homework by re-watching Ali fights after it was pointed out to me the holes in his game (defensive flaws). My initial thought on this was Ali by decision but I don't believe he would survive the heat Joshua brings because he lacks power and is too cavalier, all your talk about size not being a factor doesn't sound too informed to me. You do a fine job of sounding like you haven't a clue yourself and I am not saying that because we clashed, you never breakdown why you think a certain way or offer any kind of valuable insight.
If I was picking Ali you would be fine, you just can't accept another viewpoint because you probably idolise Ali. You accuse me of hero worshipping Joshua but in reality I am not even a particular fan of this boxer, he kind of rubs me up the wrong way to be honest. (although my opinion of him is obviously a lot higher than yours)
I hardly post in this forum despite reading tonnes for the very reason I usually don't have formed opinions on most subjects in classic because I am not a historian with anything to add, but I won't pipe down on something I do have a view on just to placate the likes of yourself. Also, stop pretending boxing is some deeply complex, hard to decipher, super-puzzle - like anything else you can never know enough but the basics of scoring a fight or even predicting outcomes is not that hard, at least not for me, maybe I am special.

 

I don't think anyone thinks he beats Ali just because he is a juiced* up 250lbs. I do think because he has the skills and athleticism to take advantage of his size he would have an edge on Ali, yes. I know he is largely unproven but at the risk of giving you a coronary I will admit I held this view before the Klitschko fight which only reinforced my opinion as unlike some here I was impressed with what he showed in that fight.

To be honest I couldn't name 10 fighters I would favour over Joshua head-to-head. I'm sure that sounds crazy to most classicists but that is simply how I see it when I imagine these hypothetical match-ups. It is not my intention to discredit anybody or rile up posters in classic, maybe I am completely wrong but I just try to be honest.


*The PED use is 99% for me, I would be shocked to discover he was clean (or any/many modern elite fighters for that matter) and without the drugs/supplements he is a different fighter who I would have to see to have an opinion on.

 

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion Jof, and you put forward sound arguments, I disagree with your opinion, but at least your opinions are considered.

 

To make an important clarification:

Everyone on this forum thinks size matters, since no one thinks Lomachenko beats Joshua/Fury/Wlad or even Ward/Kovavlev. The difference is when one thinks size stops to matter. Some think that even the best 210-215 lbs fighters would lose to the best 240-250 lbs fighters. I count myself to them. I think most here disagree. But most agree with, I think, that the best 240-250 lbs beat any fighter sub 190 lbs.

So, really, the disagreement is about if size stops to matter at 190 lbs or 210 lbs or higher.

 

I go with Ali, but if I had big money on it I'd be hiding behind the sofa.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and it is not giving me a coronary .. I happen to like Joshua a lot , especially the manner he carries himself .. I just feel it is premature but time will tell ..

 

Why? Do you think at currently at 28/29 years old that he's going to get much better than he is now?

 

I think he will be better next time out because he did comeback from being hurt .. it reminded me of the first Louis Schmeling fight except Max was not 41 but 30 .. still, Joshua did survive, clear his head and come back .. we will see .. I'm happy to give him all the credit because he is such a classy athlete ...

 

Would I believe Ali's recounting the affect George's punches that got through to his head over your opinion about it, ah yeh.

 

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Ah, bully for you.