Why isn't Carnera in the IBHOF?

I would submit that the 3 biggest defenders is a much stronger starting point when you consider the exact same 3 are the ones making the most noise, whereas you will most probably find a more diverse range of detractors when comparing both camps.

 

The only common factor that I could identify with the three main defenders is that they all tend to have a higher opinion of pre 1960s fighters than is normal for the board.

This tends to bring them into conflict with certain other elements.

The link is that these elements either have a lower than average opinion of these to fighters, or have an agenda against them.

 

Yes I love the movie because of the cast.

However, it is an insult to all championship boxing when you think about it. I mean how can a guy have his whole career fixed like that and fool the fans? It makes fools of serious boxing fans. Nobody would turn up to those fights. Knowledgeable fans can smell a dive.

 

Wait, he's not in the hall of fame?

 

Maybe if people weren't clueless enough to call these fighters bad we wouldn't have to?

 

The problem with Carnera seems to be one of honesty in accessing him.

The man had 71 recorded KO victories in 88 wins. That is more KO victories than Foreman, Louis, Dempsey, Tyson, Lewis or any other heavyweight champion. Primo recorded a 80% KO percentage based on victories. In his career he had a total of two (2) KO's over any name fighter and both are dubious .. Earnie Schaaf may or may not have been damaged goods, collapsing from a sharp left jab while Sharkey, a career inconsistent fighter on the decline in the 1930's may or may not have taken a dive. Let's say both of those KO's are on the record. Why is Primo on no respected historian's top twenty or thirty list of heavyweight punchers ?

When Primo lost the title to Baer in 1934 he was just 28 years old. Putting aside his following massacre loss to Louis, in the other 16 fights he had before retiring his record was 9 - 7 losing three by stoppage. The competition was mediocre at best. A twenty eight year old heavyweight is not an old fighter. That being said it is reasonable to ask why did Carnera go from a world champion to a second rater overnight ? The obvious answer is that he was no longer viewed as a asset to be managed accordingly.

My take:

Primo Carnera had exceptional strength, reach, stamina and an all time world class heart. He developed a decent jab and had decent speed for a big man. His chin is underrated. It was not cast iron but it was solid. The shots he took from Baer would have kept many men on the floor. Primo kept getting up. Those were not love taps but nasty flush rights from a brutal puncher. Again, his chin was solid.

Primo was a bit muscle bound and as a result pushed opposed to snapped his punches, rarely getting leverage on them. It did seem occasionally he could land a hard shot and maybe the Sharkey KO was real, just tough to tell. He never really learned how to fight, was likely never really trained properly , never had a DeForrest or a Blackburn as he was managed thru the ranks. He was very hittable and as a result limited.

There appears to be little doubt that Carnera was mobbed up and merchandised as an oddity. His opposition was clearly managed to some degree. That being said Carnera did improve and seems to have defeated some decent opposition based on match ups and styles .. he was able to utilize his overwhelming size and developed skill sets in specific match ups .. the Loughran and Uzcudun title defenses, ect .. in too many others he was exposed.

My takeaway ..

Considering his origins, considering he was treated as a commodity and never a fighter Primo was a fringe contender type and that in its own right is a terrific accomplishment. Once his marketability was over he was thrown to the side and the 9-7 record speaks for itself. If things were different he could have been better but based on what went down in actuality that's how I see it.

 

I have heard that Carnera is the only Lineal Heavyweight Champion in history, not to have been indicted into the IBHOF - Is this Correct?

 

I don't think Marvin Hart or Leon Spinks are in.

 

Ah, of course - I don't think they are - thanks.

 

Carnera made two successful defences though so it seems particularly deliberate to not induct him, considering such 'zero defence' champions as Braddock, Johansson, Sharkey are in.
I'd like to see Buster Douglas get in too.

 

Kidney failure. Check out Primos weight. It actually went down the older he got. The kidney was bleeding out into him. It was removed on his return to Italy.

 

Damn right. Every fighter good enough to be world champion, a real one, when it meant something, really should be in the hall of fame. Douglas and Primo qualify 100%

Without them, it's a hall of shame.

These guys are part of history.

 

What do you suppose that pattern derived from two examples to be?

 

He didn't go from world champion to second-rater overnight.
He lost to Baer and won 8 out of his next 9 fights, the loss being the one to Joe Louis.
It wasn't until the two losses to Leroy Haynes where he was finally considered out of the running.
The last 3 losses on his record were post-ww2 to Luigi Musina, when he was nearly 40 and had been out of the ring for 8 years.

The fact that he was battered by Baer and Louis probably did take something out of him. There's nothing unusual about a champion being dethroned and hitting a gradual decline from there on in.

 

Especially when Primo had kidney failure.