When Keepin' it Real Goes Wrong: Duran vs Leonard 1

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by escudo, May 29, 2017.


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  1. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    To this day, I'm not entirely convinced Leonard had a choice in the strategy.

    The Duran, who showed up that night, would have forced any opponent to keep it real.
     
    Man_Machine, May 31, 2017
    Man_Machine, May 31, 2017
    #16
    Mortal, Reinhardt, escudo and 1 other person like this.
  2. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    :bump
     
    BCS8, May 31, 2017
    BCS8, May 31, 2017
    #17
  3. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    escudo, May 31, 2017
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    #18
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  4. JoffJoff

    JoffJoff Regular Junkie Full Member

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    :clap:
    I actually watched this fight fairly recently and remember being annoyed with that referee and his constant hand slapping. Great, great fight and another fine breakdown, looking forward to the 'No Mas' fight next.

    What exactly did Duran do/say that got Leonard so riled up?

    EDIT/ Nevermind, escudo to the rescue, above.:D
     
    JoffJoff, May 31, 2017
    JoffJoff, May 31, 2017
    #19
  5. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Pay Duran back with back steps and horizontal movement when he got too close, but let's not let reality get in the way of a good yarn.

    https://streamable.com/ypqhg

    https://streamable.com/2yfah

    https://streamable.com/mo1jy

    https://streamable.com/ebmsi

    https://streamable.com/f3hdc
     
    The Kentucky Cobra, May 31, 2017
    The Kentucky Cobra, May 31, 2017
    #20
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  6. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Should I start posting clips from Round 2..where Leonard abandons horizontal movement to not go toe to toe but outright retreat vertically from Duran? Leonard was so thrown off by Duran's foot work and feinting, he got too jittery to even circle and started just going backwards...I know, Dundee said he didn't want him going backwards.

    Leonard......looking for payback?

    https://streamable.com/rzxxu

    https://streamable.com/2cy7i

    https://streamable.com/bmtis
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
    The Kentucky Cobra, May 31, 2017
    The Kentucky Cobra, May 31, 2017
    #21
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  7. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ray admits he got hit with a good punch early. I believe it was this combo right here http://i.imgur.com/NRgJmr4.mp4. He admitted it took him a couple of rounds to clear his head after that. Then in round 2 he got hit with this gem of a cross counter. http://i.imgur.com/J2GnO3o.mp4 But those are early clips in a high level fight where there is always a bit of a feeling out process, combined with him getting tagged hard and needing to survive a few rounds doesn't negate this http://i.imgur.com/7dzooki.mp4 and this http://i.imgur.com/3zkZtNk.mp4 and this http://i.imgur.com/GbPnJ5b.mp4 and this http://i.imgur.com/y5vysSb.mp4 and in the final round this http://i.imgur.com/AlALH94.mp4.

    Ray did what he needed to to survive early and tried to live up to what he intended to do late.
     
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    #22
  8. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We've been over this before and it's always the same results. Ray DID use movement in this fight, and to say otherwise is being blatantly disingenuous. You don't mention the rounds SRL clearly and without question used the exact same movements that won him the gold and the title. Even in round one he was using lateral movement trying to sucker Duran into a left hook... something he ALWAYS did. It's two fold, his strategy before the fight was made EXPLICITLY clear by Dundee... my guy is the bigger stronger fighter with all the intangibles and he's going to KO Duran. Couple that with Ray getting hurt bad in round 2, and he was thrown off his game even more. He was then getting feinted out of the building thanks to having to respect his power. In retrospect you can claim it was the wrong strategy, but at the time they were fully justified in thinking his usual movement would work and to stand his ground a little more. It didn't, but they had every right to believe it would going in. The point Kev can never get around is... SRL style was ALWAYS much closer to Duran 1 than Duran 2... that is unquestionable
     
    KuRuPT, May 31, 2017
    KuRuPT, May 31, 2017
    #23
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  9. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair enough. I can see and understand where you are coming from. I believe you have sort of bridged the gap between Cobra and I. If it was the strategy from the get go or a product of Ray's anger really doesn't matter. Fact is Ray underestimated Duran and believed he could KO him even playing Duran's game on the inside. He had a plan, and motivations aside, that plan blew up in his face spectacularly.
     
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    #24
  10. The Kentucky Cobra

    The Kentucky Cobra Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    In the first round, Ray used lots of lateral movement but Duran kept cutting him off and pinning him on the ropes. Ray either ties him up or spins off the ropes as fast as he can. Given his behavior there, I just don't think Ray wanted to slug it out like that. He wanted to bomb on Duran but safely from range.

    In the second round, he starts retreating and reacting to Duran's feints, which is what got him hurt there. He bit and ducked and got clobbered.

    It's certainly a dynamic fight between two dynamic fighters. Ray certainly goes into trenches, but hell, I think that is what got him into this fight. As you pointed out, Round 2 where he's trying to retreat and pot shot was a disaster for him.

    Duran knows he's ahead and clowning, Leonard is looking for the knockout to salvage a victory as any great fighter would do in this situation.

    And I will tell you I straight up don't buy the Leonard got suckered by Duran's trash talking. I don't doubt the plan was to KO Duran or at the very least get him to respect Leonard's power. They knew fighting like Viruet wasn't going to do any good against Duran. But that doesn't mean the plan was to brawl at range, I think it's clear Leonard wanted to control the distance via movement and clinching but that went to the hell very quickly.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
    The Kentucky Cobra, May 31, 2017
    The Kentucky Cobra, May 31, 2017
    #25
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  11. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So your contention was that it was plan A that went so badly, that Ray was forced into his B game. But he stuck to that B game far more than was prudent. In the latter half of the fight Leonard was actively looking to pressure even as he got Duran to the ropes. Even going so far as pushing him back head on here http://i.imgur.com/GbPnJ5b.mp4. He was pushing the pace inside after getting battered there for quite a while. It's either anger or stupidity and I don't think Ray was a stupid man.
     
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    #26
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak banned Full Member

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    Just want to say that there is some great conversation going on here. Enjoying it quite a bit.
     
    Seamus, May 31, 2017
    Seamus, May 31, 2017
    #27
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  13. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The ability to use gifs as evidence of your point makes it easier to come to common ground. I also have the added benefit of a couple pages of additional text already written as evidence. I welcome any and all dissenting opinion on the subject of my breakdowns. Hell some of the best conversation comes from a dissenting opinion as evidenced by the Numerous Carnera threads on here.

    TBH I don't know how people could talk boxing as accurately as we are able to do these days. THe evidence is all a link away.
     
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    #28
  14. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He sounds far more reasonable than I expected him to be after reading this comment. He has a perfectly rational view of the events that took place. I do not agree with his view but I can understand how he came to his conclusions. Same goes for Cobra.
     
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    escudo, May 31, 2017
    #29
  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    No, as I've explained numerous times, Leonard moved much more in his other fights against aggressive, physically imposing opponents. I've provided evidence of this from several fights and could easily come up with more.

    Btw, of course Leonard used lateral movement in Duran I. Do you and KC really think anyone here is arguing that he didn't take a step backwards or laterally the entire fight?? But as I've explained to you several times in the past, with footage, Leonard covers waaay more ring in a number of other fights against aggressive opponents, especially in the first rounds of those fights.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Jun 1, 2017
    mrkoolkevin, Jun 1, 2017
    #30
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