Jack Dempsey vs Evander Holyfield

My problem with Holyfield matchups is that while he had great technical ability when he wanted to, he couldn't resist a slugfest. I have much the same problem with Dempsey.

My evaluation is this: if it's a straight up boxing match, then I favour Holyfield by decision. Holy was really solid in nearly all aspects of boxing. Dempsey had the most problems imho with the clever technical boxers as opposed to other types of fighter.

If it's a brawl, then I favour Dempsey to knock him out. He hits way harder, is faster and I think he has a better chin.

If Holy can resist the temptation to brawl, I think he can take this.

There's not much in it, though. If Jack lands a "Bert Cooper" shot on Holy, it's game over for the Real Deal.

 

This is a classic mismatch , the real deal in about 3 rounds.

 

Pretty sure General is thataway >

 

You don't even know your left from your right , oh my...

 

At least I can tell the difference between Dempsey and Bobby Czyz

 

Holyfield would be the slight betting favorite but I would not put money on him, way to inconsistent.

Also is this a juiced Holyfield......or was there ever a non juiced Holyfield ? You have to be a fool if you believe he is/was not a life time PED abuser.

As I pointed out in another thread , Holyfield is 1-4 in his signature fights besides Tyson and 1-1 against glass chin head case Moorer. IMO he did not look that great against Tyson, it was how bad Tyson looked making in return Holy look good.......he counter punched and clinched, kept the 50% from his prime Tyson off balance due to him constantly squaring up and got brave when Tyson ran out of gas due to him never ever been in 12 round fighting shape after the prison stint.

He had his hands full for 24 rounds against fossils Holmes and Foreman and got almost stopped by crack head Cooper...........and got a razor thin decision in the second Bowe bout but needed a parachute , Bowe's collapsing wife and ultimately a mayor breather due to the interruption to pull it off.

Holyfield is extremely beat able on the Elite level and writing Dempsey off is absurd...........it is 50/50 in my book ....but if he is in trouble like he was in Bowe 1or 3, or Cooper he gets finished off.

 

Totally and completely false, and I think you might need to start watching some of these fights a little closer. Bowe wasn't bullying Holyfield around and neither was Lewis. In fact, nobody really bullied him around, yet I'm suppose to believe somebody who weighs less than him, and clearly not as strong as him, is somehow going to? I'm honestly not sure if you're serious here or just joking around. Dempsey was in no way stronger than HW Holyfield. Defense? Defense? Brennan was landing shots on Dempsey Holy would've picked off like nothing. Firpo sent him throw the ropes, and he was a wild swinging brawler who telegraphed his shots like nobody's business. Yet he was still able to connect on Dempsey and hurt him badly. You think he's landing those on Holy? LOL. Tunney took Dempsey to school in both fights and landed at will. I 100% guarantee you Holy would make Tunney miss more, and certainly pay more. Carp visibly hurt Dempsey, and I'd wager Holy has more power than Carp by a decent margin. This notion that Dempsey had better defense than Holy is simply laughable.

Holy is worlds better than Dempsey from a technical standpoint inside. He just throws a bigger variety of punches and does some more technically sound. I obviously don't think that is the best place for him against Dempsey, as I will give him credit for having excellent power and the ability to hurt guys will seemingly very little space or leverage behind his punches. However, Holy is simply better from a technical standpoint.

Dempsey is simply too crude coming in to win this fight imo. He has the power to end thing for sure, but I just don't see him getting that chance. He's going to get pummeled coming him with counters and will eventually get stopped from accumulation imo.

 

The only hope Dempsey has is that Holyfield can't resist a slugfest which has already been mentioned.
Anyone who goes life and death with Firpo is gonna get killed by Holyfield.
And yes, 30 lbs does make a difference when the bigger guy is highly skilled.

Holyfield by decision or later stoppage.

 

I never once said that Bowe or Lewis bullied Holyfield. Holyfield held his own and was more than competitive against both of them. Don't really know why you said that...

I never said that Dempsey bullies him. If I did then I am saying it now, Dempsey wouldn't physically bully him or overpower him but he would be stronger on the inside.

Brennan was not picking of Dempsey. Again, watch the film. I have watched that film several times on .25 play speed in order to see everything that goes on, Dempsey's defense was fantastic. A right side better than Holyfield's who got hit way too much.

Idk why people insist that Firpo "telegraphed his punches like nobody's business". It would be incredibly naive to think that someone who is unrefined, no jab, telegraph's his punches like nobody's business, and no real skill could make it to the top of the division. Firpo obviously had something apart from a crazy right hand.

Bert Cooper landed some power on Holyfield and hurt him. Cooper wasn't anything special.

Holyfield looked ugly against past prime Tyson who shares a very similar style to Dempsey. You're nuts if you think Holyfield would make Tunney miss more than he did against Dempsey. You are flat out lying if you say that film shows Holyfield had better defense than Dempsey. I can't find a shred of film that supports your statement.

Holyfield does some things better than Dempsey and Dempsey does other things better. Where it matters, Dempsey does better. On the inside Dempsey is better, going to the body Dempsey is better, defense Dempsey is better, physically Dempsey is stronger, counterpunching Dempsey is better. Holyfield won't box Dempsey. Not in a million years. Holyfield clinched and countered against Tyson. He would attempt something similar with Dempsey. The difference is Dempsey is right at home in the clinch. Tyson wasn't.

Dempsey and crude don't belong in the same sentence. The fact that you believe Dempsey to be crude is showing me that you are very unfamiliar with Dempsey. I don't want to debate with someone who isn't familiar with Dempsey and Holyfield.

 

One thing for sure , Evan Fields is not stopping Dempsey, prime for prime, getting a decision, sure , I dont have a problem with that camp............Holy could not stop, B,C and D dwellers in Mercer, Stewart, ( ok maybe cuts stoppage in vs 1), freaking Vaughn "Nobody" Bean and the King manufactured Huggy Bear

 

I'm honestly, not that you care, starting to lose respect for your boxing knowledge here. The simple statement of "Dempsey is better counterpuncher than Holyfield" might be the worst statement made on this site this year. He's world's.. and I mean WORLD'S worse at counterpunching than Holyfield. A 8 year old could watch films of both these fighters and instantly tell Holy was the better counter puncher. Since you keep making such statement like this, I'm honestly thinking this is a complete waste of time to continue this discussion. I'll say a few more things, but I honestly see this going nowhere.

You say you never said Dempsey would bully Holyfield, but you keep making the claim he's stronger. You illustrate this by naming people like Willard, Firpo etc etc as proof of how strong Dempsey is. Then when I say Lewis or Bowe never ever overpowered Holy or bullied him.. you go.. Why didn't you bring them up. LOL. Then you AGAIN make the claim that Dempsey is stronger than Holyfield, which is blatantly false, and frankly, it's not all that close. Even in the example you named, Dempsey never physically outmuscled those guys or showed his strength to be anywhere near superior.. yet these are you examples of why he's stronger than someone who FACED MORE and DID BETTER AGAINST BIGGER MEN? That's odd logic to say the least. Holy is without question stronger than Dempsey. We can say its' cause of PED or roids or whatever, doesn't matter, he's stronger is the point.

Do you even watch these fights? Firpo was a wild swinging clown in there most of the time. He was a hype machine or literally beat nobody of note to get that shot. Look at the damn film man, what technical skill do you see? I say he literally telegraphs his shots, and you go no he doesn't watch the fights!! Yet he unquestionably DOES WHEN YOU WATCH THE FIGHTS. Dempsey technically should've have lost that fight anyways, but was helped back in the ring.

You say Tunney does land on holy as much as Dempsey, again, tells me all I need to know about how you view these films. Holy would UNQUESTIONABLY make Tunney miss more and counter him more. To say otherwise is laughable. Then again, I'm starting to find this whole conversation laughable with some of the things you're saying here.

 

Dempsey had trouble with movers,is this REALLY competitve with a elusive counter puncher with great lateral movement? Even if Holyfield brawled with him at about 200 pounds the combination of speed and crisp accuracy along witha chin proves to much here.Demspey in no way shape or form has even seen a holyfield in his life ,how would he react to such a fighter?

If Holyfield at 215 fought Dempsey his punch resistnace would be far to great for such a wild slugger like Dempsey. If he ate foreman and Tyson bombs what is Demspey really going to do in this match up? Even if you made Demspey 210 pounds its the better fighter that wins most of the time.

Holyfield by TKo rnd 3.

 

I'm picking Holy but I'm not discounting Dempsey. That would be foolish.

 

i guess dempsey could ko ray mercer too, while we're at it.

 

Dempsey's entire style was based around counterpunching. You can't tell me he wasn't one of the best counter punchers of all time in the heavyweight division.

Yeah he's stronger. Which comes into play on the inside which is where the fight will be. Dempsey clearly muscled his opponents on the inside. I don't think I ever mentioned Willard.

I don't know if you read my post but I clearly agreed that Lewis and Bowe never overpowered Holyfield.

You're lying about Dempsey's fights at this point. I can tell you aren't too familiar like most people which is why you write him off like most people, again.

I agree that Firpo doesn't look technically sound at all but there are certain things that you see by being in the ring. I am simply saying it is naive to think that Firpo was unskilled when he was a top heavyweight at the time. Its like saying Donald Trump is an idiot with a low IQ. Obviously he isn't, just look at the business empire he built.

Now you're trying to change the outcomes of the fights. I don't get it. You guys say Dempsey was outboxed by Gibbons, struggled and almost lost to Brennan, was knocked out by Firpo, wouldn't have won without low blows, etc. If you honestly hold these opinions then truth is your a ****ing moron. This isn't aimed at just you but people in general on here who are reading this.

Dempsey was the heavyweight champion, he won it fair and square, he was a more legit champ than most ever. Get over it.