review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

There would have been so many questions answered with this fight but sadly it didn't happen, I would fancy Holyfield to pull off the upset but wouldn't be surprised to see Tyson prevail.

 

yeah I sway on it quite often. Sometimes I watch Holy's old fights and cant see how Mike would over come that resolve he had, Evander was just relentless and those uppercuts...

then other times I look at Tyson's brute force and how much better he was before prison, although 91 does even the score a bit, I'd be less surprised if Holyfield won that fight but it would have been a war. such a shame it didn't happen. I think I would rather have seen that over Lewis v Bowe if given a choice.

 

I've been through this before with you Mongoose. It's the same stuff over and over again. You make valid points but you can't use tiny bits of video evidence to support your claim that Tyson was the same fighter in 96 as he was in 91. I'd break down an entire sequence instead of .5 second soundbytes or gifs showing Tyson throwing one combination. For gawd sakes man!

You admit Holyfield was a different fighter, why not Tyson? Truth is Holyfield adapted better with age than Tyson did. That's why I said the 96 bout was a winnable one for Tyson.

Look, do you box or play athletics? I box and play futbol. Both sports I took a break from, and this was in my early 20's in the heart of my prime, and came back a few years later to never regain top form. Now I'm 40 and thinking where it all went.

I haven't seen your response to my last reply yet...so give me time.

 

I commend you for taking the tea cup ride with this guy. He spins shyte around like a top, I know his style. I just don't get caught up in it. But still I commend you. He doesn't think much of Tyson anyways.

 

So detailed that you couldn't answer with a simple "yes" or "no". Give yourself a tug job.

You answered it your way, yes. But I, just live everyone else here, can read between the lines. Your real answer goes something like this..."Tyson developed a straight right hand post prison, a weapon added to his repertoire that he didn't use pre-prison."

If physique won you the heavyweight championship of the world than Duncan Dokiwari would remain undefeated and undisputed to this day! We all know Tyson couldn't spar in prison, nor was he allowed to lift weights. 4 fights and less than 8 total rounds within 1.4567890 years after doing NOTHING for 3 years does not get anyone, ANYONE, back in fighting shape.

You're showing clips of Bruno's excellent mobility of moving backwards, something that emboldens Tyson. A strategy that Tyson feasted on since his inception under Cus's tutelage. Wrong thing to do against Tyson, especially from a slow Bruno. So. Dang. Slow. Moving around the ring like a gazelle, eh Bruno? Heh heh!

Who cares about Bowe. How about Obed Sullivan or Lou Savarese? I should check more videos of the greatest defensive specialist in the 90's on youtube. And all it took was one shot to land on Mathis, the supposed upper body movement gold medal winner according to you. Yeah, Mathis was elusive, making Mike miss single shots, tying him up with no inside work done by Mike. But Mathis was landing bee bees compared to Tyson landing one bomb. Tyson looked horrible swinging for the fences and missing Mathis by miles.

Imagine if Mike would've developed the straight right for Mathis instead of Bruno??

A definite step up from McNeeley, sure. But did Mike learn anything from Mathis? I'll tell you what everyone who watched the fight learned - that Mike Tyson needed a lot more fights to dust off the cobwebs and ring rust.

Pffft. Can you be more specific? Do you mean the best Mike looked "physically" since 88? Or the best Mike looked "fighting wise" since 88? Either point is wrong. Mike looked good "physically" in the McNeeley affair, just like the pic you posted above. Fighting wise Tyson hadn't looked awesome since Spinks in 88. He looked like gob shyte against Bruno I, Truth and Douglas. Decent against Tillman and Stewart. Pretty good against Ruddock I, fair against Ruddock II, and complete shyte since his stint in the clink.

It took Tommy Brooks to get Mike back into real fighting condition, technically speaking. And that was in 1999, the year Tyson made contact to Botha with a, you guessed it...straight right.

You forgot to quote "...because of Don King shenanigans..." Duh. So it's only fitting when you give a detailed response and analogy but when I do it gets swept aside like Desiree Washington in a hotel room at 2am? That's cool. I do it too. But don't cry when I do it.

 

You wanted me to make generalizations based on year, I did you one better and gave you my thoughts on the actual performances. You are just pissy because you wanted to pigeon hole me and found you couldn't do that.

I can't stop you from fabricating quotes but I will not argue about things I didn't say no matter how many times you try.

Tyson never lifted many weights until the end of his career, he did lots of resistance exercises like his push up work out in prison as he did prior. He also claimed he did lots of shadowboxing in prison which was something he regularly did prior. Regardless claiming Tyson "rotted away" in prison is just absurd when he gained a few pounds between 91 and 95, mostly in muscle it would appear.

He is mostly moving horizontally in those clips, and regardless if his movement emboldens Tyson or not, it's movement that contradicts your original claim of him being a statue that didn't move.

I care about Bowe and so should any boxing fan. Sullivan was a no contest over a head butt in the 5th round. Mathis admits after the death of Joey Fariello and his father, he lost all passion for the sport, did not prepare for Savarese and retired after the fight. Not according to me, I never said he was a gold medal winner.

Made Mike miss combos too. And yes, Mathis didn't have the offense to make Mike pay.

Patience and timing against a frustrating opponent. More patience and timing than Bowe had, who should have been disqualified.

The best he looked since 88, physically and fighting wise.

You misquoted me as saying "good as peak form in 1988?" I didn't say was as good as he was in 1988, I said it was the best he looked since than. As in better than any fight from 89, 90, 91, 95, 96. And I have no interest in further explaining that. That's as cut and dry as it gets.

**** that, Tyson looked horrible against Botha. That was the first truly bad performance from Mike.

I have no idea what the hell you are going on about here, and I can't be bothered to decode it.

 

Part of this argument often comes down to what people think (in hindsight) is a worse disadvantage: Tyson's inacivity due to prison OR Holyfield's age and obvious decline/damage due to activity in damaging fights.

I think it's about even.
Prior to the 1996 fight almost everyone assumed Tyson had the advantage there.
Tyson was a much bigger favourite in 1996 than he could possibly have been in 1991.
None of this proves anything except that perceptions were skewed.

Knowing everything I know now, with all this hindsight, opinion sharing and analysis, I can't see a prime or undefeated Holyfield losing to any version of post-Douglas Tyson.
But that's just my perception.

I tend to believe Tyson would have to be at his 1987-'88 form to stand a chance against a primed 1991 Holyfield.
Both these guys were top level operators.

 

Agreed.

 

I don't have to pigeon hole you, you've done that yourself in countless threads. LOL. You argue every, little, thing. That's cool though. The forum knows you're the spin doctor poster boy. I know, like every non biased fight fan knows, that Tyson was past prime post prison.

Keep it simple, stupid.

 

I don't think you explain that. I'm pretty much the opposite of the pigeon holed.

No, I prevent others from spinning me by forcing people to address actual quotes and not paraphrase.

Who the hell said Tyson was prime in 96?

 

Was Tyson prime in 91?

 

No. Did I not say "best since 88" .....

 

So Tyson wasn't prime in 91?

 

Green. Pre-prime. Prime. Peak. Prime. Past-Prime. Shop worn. Washed up. Shot to shat.

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I don't limit my observations to such black and white simplicity. Performance varies from fight to fight. He had a good performance in 91, and a not so good one. In both he was lacking the mobility of his 88 fights with Holmes and Spinks.