JACK JOHNSON V LUIS ANGEL FIRPO?

Yawn, Mcvey do you want to score Johnson vs. Moran and Willard from the footage available or not? There's not much risk for you scoring the fight, is there???

I think you don't because they are MUCH closer than the regurgitated news clips you cling to. Prove me wrong!

After all, we are talking about something with film, so who really needs a paper who likely didn't have a man in attendance?

As mentioned I do not care if Johnson won all 8 rounds vs. Flynn in a 45 round scheduled matched halted by a DQ. The interesting point, which you seem to be allergic to is several at ringside felt Johnson was getting winded.

You use the press only when it suits you and run from it when it does not! So transparent, predictable, and pathetic.

 

One phrase PRIMARY SOURCES! Look up what it means and provide some.

How can one man deliberately and repeatedly do himself this much damage ?
It's a mystery, but a very enjoyable one!

 

McVey,

The number of times I call you out, only to see you tuck tail and run has to be more than you can count on both hands.

You have zero interest analyzing the films. But if you want to score what we can view for ourselves on Johnson vs. Moran and Willard,

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. You will see a very close and competitive fight, which completely dispels the myth on what " primary " press sources, or at least the ones you like to post say. How can this be? GULP.

This is for the other readers, but you can read and try to comprehend what I'm about to say.

Primary sources are far from excellent. They can vary, and offer a different option was to who won the fight! We see this all the time today. So taking one or two of them ( Which suit your agenda ) and acting as if this is 100% on how it went down does not hold water when we can see it on film for ourselves to judge.

I know you like Adam's book on Johnson, from what I've read Unforgivable Blackness is a bit better, but to get back to my point. There was some debate as to what happened when Johnson lost via TKO to Klondike.

When I asked Adam for his sources, he produced 4 of them. I thanked him. The 4 sources I read all said something different! One called Johnson a hulking monster, another skinny. One said he quit, the other excessive clinching and not fighting back which lead to the stoppage. So which one did Adam pick? The one who best paints his subject material in the light he wants you to view it in.

I highly suggest you read Unforgivable Blackness's take on the quit job Johnson offered. Another book on Johnson, Papa Jack concurs

 

I have all these books and 3 more on Johnson.
You want to quote Papa Jack ?
Here is Roberts take on the Moran fight.
"In the early rounds it appeared that Johnson could knock out Moran at any time.In fact the cinematograph people were frightened ,he might get angry and do just that..But the fear was unnecessary Johnson smiled throughout the fight and never really tried to hurt his opponent".
"Johnson was the clear winner and was given the decision" pages 192&193 Papa Jack by Randy Roberts..
Here is Roberts take on the Flynn fight.
"The fight was hardly worth the film." "Johnson was close to 230lbs.But that did not matter.From the first round it was clear that Flynn was sadly outclassed.In the early rounds Johnson landed cutting blows whenever he chose.
Flynn bleeding from gashes above both eyes was particularly bothered by a cut inside his mouth,which forced him to swallow his own blood.
When the challenger tried to force the action Johnson pulled him in and punished him with uppercuts.
The only punches Flynn landed were on Johnson's stomach and he was successful there only becaue the champion shoved out his stomach and invited Flynn to blaze away.As if this were not humiliation enough,
Johnson talked to ringsiders whiel Flynn was innefectually hitting his mid section.Indeed often it seemed Johnson was more intent on his conversation with his wife and handlers than on the business in the ring" ." " Finally in round nine the Police Captain Fred Fornoff said the fight had become a slaughter and a merely brutal exhibition". Doesn't sound too competitive to me.lol
Ward's Unforgiveable Blackness says this of the Moran fight.
" Both men seemed tired at the end of the 20 rounds but Johnson was the clear winner".
The headline in the Defender was as follows.
"World Acclaims Jack Johnson King Of Prize Fighters" It goes on to say Champions victory over FRank Moran of Pittburgh in Paris fever sets at rest any doubt as to his ability.Speed and power of Johnson astonishes fight followers ,and out come of 20rd battle never in doubt-In a class of his own.
Pictures may not be shown in United States.
Moran was game ,did his best but was no match for Johnson.
Boasted White Hope is punched at will and Anglo saxon supremacy inheavyweight class receives crushing blow as crafty champion plays with him like a cat with a mouse .In Fine condition all sorts of excuses offered Moran drowns in black sea".

Ward's words on the Flynn fight.
"At the opening bell Flynn resorted to his old ways,rushing at Johnson,trying to bull his way inside.Johnson alternately jabbed himand tied him up
By the middle of the second round there were cuts over both Flynn's eyes and he was gulping blood.Time and again one ringsider recalled,Johnson would stick out his big black stomach that looked like an inflatedbass drum and invite Flynn to punch at it.But every time the white man was foolishly lured into this trap,he was peppered with a series of stinging lefts and rights to the face which--- continued to disfigure his already gruesome countenance"
Johnson smiled and laughed and kept upa riunning converrsationwithEtta.A spectator shouted for Johnson to end it."waita minute!" he shouted back and brought more blood from Flynn's nose"
"Johnson continued to evade Flynn's angry leaps ,and to punish Flynn mercilessly,until Captain Fornoff ,of the New Mexico Mounted Police stepped in and stopped the bout in the ninth.
He said it had turned into a slaughter and a merely brutal exhibition". Johnson got $31,000 for this easy workout out plus $5000 he won from betting on himself."

You are a silly man , full of bile and hate about a man who was long dead before you were even born,2 years even before I was born!
You seriously need to get yourself a life!!!

 

McVey,

As usual regulating possesses from books won't save you!

If you want to quote Robert's book Papa Jack, Johnson QUIT!

Do you trust film or a new paper review for how a fight when down? A fair question, you ducked!

You won't go there, and we both know why. Anytime you like to go over who looked better in the given footage, I will be there. But I expect you not to show up!

I do like Johnson over Firpo but its not sure a thing.

 

You are labouring under the delusion that anyone on this forum gives a flying f*ck about your opinion of Jack Johnson. They don't!

 

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This is just plain dumb. Moran rarely hit Johnson during their bout. It was a one sided encounter. Just like his bout with Willard Johnson was catching and blocking Morans blows all night long. Punches that don't land are not scoring blows.

 

I think I'm up to speed with Johnson's style. Jack Dempsey is my favourite fighter and for the reason you stated.

 

We are dealing with blind hatred here