Why did sub-190lb heavyweights disappear after Marciano's era?

Bone growth and density in human beings is linked to improved nutrition and living conditions. Modern athletes are human beings. Not much to theorize on.

 

Are you asking what division 175-190 men can be found at in modern boxing?

Middle, Super Middle, Light Heavy, and a few in Cruiser.

Lemieux
Canelo
Ward
Kovalev

 

I'd say so yeah, round about that time it stopped being seen as a stepping stone belt and more as a belt in its own right. Round about Torres and Tiger time.

 

The same reason sub 190 halfbacks did after Steve Van Buren.

 

Darren Sproles is 5'6, 190lb, and runs against 300lb athletic fiber optic twitch muscle behemoths.

 

The 190 heavyweights disappeared when the 210 heavyweights got better. The 210 heavyweights disappeared when the 230 heavyweights got better.

There always was 210 heavyweights, there always was 230 heavyweights. It was just that they had to wait for the things in boxing favoured them to happen. That does not just mean steroids. It means things like rules and changes to the equipment that favoured bigger men. Training became more tailored to suit an individual. Diets became more tailored to suit an individual. In short as time goes on it was possible to physically get more out of the next size range of boxer. Those guys always were around. It just appears was harder for them to reach their potential until advances and factors came in to help them.

 

There have been big guys through out the history of the division .. Jack Johnson fought many big, talented fighters in his pre-title years. Dempsey's era had many .. Louis fought Carnera, Max Baer, Buddy Baer and Abe Simon. The forties and the fifties were dominated by smaller heavyweights .. This started to end with the emergence of Liston who while 6'1" was a rock solid 215 plus with a monster reach followed by Ali at 6' 3" ... by the 70's you had Foreman, Lyle, Bugner, Norton, Tate, Holmes and many others all tall and 210 to 220 .. the eighties even bigger .. Witherspoon, Thomas, Coetzee, Dokes, Tubbs, Page, Smith, Bruno .. while many of these guys were not always body they were all big, talented and capable of performing on a very high level on a given night. For whatever reason bigger and bigger men entered the game and in the nineties, with Bowe and Lewis you started to have giants followed by the Klitschkos .. it really isn't even fair to match up guys below 210 or so ( factoring for modern training ) against these guys .. there are reasons for weight classes ..

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...ZsWyRk3tauXmMMFmw&sig2=wskqZlwrgmFtvFoS1s-Mgg

 

Yes another factor richdanahuff brought up on another thread was that trainers sought "the next prototype". As soon as one coach had success with a type of fighter the trainers are looking for "the new Ali". A decorated amateur, taller than average who already knows how to use his advantage.

It got me thinking. It starts in the Amateurs. Tall fighters with long arms suit that format. When they turn pro not only are they automatically great prospects and proven, but they already were selected and coached from kids to exploit their own physical attributes.

If we think back, Patterson was the first Olympian to win the heavyweight title. Before then future heavyweight champions were not necessarily scouted from the Olympics. But it opened the floodgates.

After Patterson, just about every champion from then on won an Olympic medal of some kind.


So one answer, not the only answer, must be that before Patterson pro coaches and managers were not looking into Amatuer boxing for the next prototype. They did not yet look upon Olympians as "ready made" future champions. Perhaps their idea until then was seeking the next Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis and were therefore only in the market for that kind of champ?

 

I was interested in comparing the top elevens in height and so picked 1931 & 1955
1931
Max Schmeling (6' 1")
Jack Sharkey (6')
Ernie Schaaf (6' 2")
Primo Carnera (6' 6")
King Levinsky (5' 11")
Mickey Walker (5' 7")
Tommy Loughran (5' 11 1/2")
Young Stribling (6' 1")
Stanley Poreda (6' 1 1/2")
Tuffy Griffith (5' 11")
Max Baer (6' 3")

1955
Rocky Marciano (5' 11")
Archie Moore (5' 11")
Bob Baker (6' 2")
Hurricane Jackson (6' 3")
John Holman (6' 3")
Willie Pastrano (5' 11")
Nino Valdes (6' 3")
Johnny Summerlin (6' 1")'
Bob Satterfield (6' 2")*
Young Jack Johnson (6' 3")
Ezzard Charles (6')

*I think Satterfield was more likely about 6'

So at least comparing these two years, the fifties example actually has four 6' 3" guys with the thirties example having only two, but the thirties two became champions. Is the issue who is big or just if the champion is. By the way, the late forties to mid-fifties era had two of the biggest guys ever to compete prior to the 21st century, Ben Moroz at possibly 7' 1" and 300 lbs and Ewart Potgeiter at 7' 2" and 330 lbs. If these guys had been good enough or at least favored by the raters to break into the top ten, they would have made this era look like a "monster" era of giant heavies.

*I think better nutrition and improved pre-natal and general medical care probably accounts for the increased size starting in the 1960's.

 

Great post and observations.

I think it might be quite telling that the biggest guys from these two years were not decorated amateurs. They were good pros and big enough, but maybe they were not among the child prodigy variety that boxed internationally as kids.

Could that have something to do with them not beginning to dominate earlier?

 

Well late 50s and 60s there was still alot.

Floyd Patterson
Doug Jones
Jerry Quarry
Eddie Machen
Jimmy Ellis
...etc to name a few

It's really the 70s you start to see guys either cutting to 175 or beefng up to over 200 pounds. Now there were guys who started in that cruiser range like Jimmy Young, Tim Witherspoon, Mike Weaver, didn't Cooney start around there as well? but quickly added weight after a few pro fights.

If I'm not mistaken the last men to be rated that were sub 200 pounds were:
Jerry Quarry
Leon Spinks

Is Leon Spinks the last man to win the title while weighing under 200 pounds...hmmm

 

Roy was 193 when he beat Ruiz.

 

Yeah, Roy wasn't seen as THE Champion but he did win a World Title while under 200 pounds. Jones actually was a bit lighter, I recall he had on shoes and a heavy track suit at the weigh in.

So..Roy Jones and Leon Spinks were the last two official sub 200 pound Heavyweight Champions.