Is Ward now an All Time Great? (As in top 100 of all time)

I heard there was some controversy over the Toney McCallum trilogy and that McCallum should have at least one win, but no matter. I've only seen one so was giving McCallum the benefit of the doubt. It's still a solid career without that.

 

That's because it's easier to dominate weaker opposition. McCallum undoubtedly has the stronger wins H2H but either way, Ward is truly brilliant.
Beat Toney too whilst old.

 

This is recency bias showing its head.

Ward's resume and level of competition isn't close to Oscar's.

Oscar had 29 title fights and fought guys like Pac and Gatti in non-title fights. Andre has 32 fights in his entire career.

Andre has one more title fight (9) than Lomachenko does. The inactivity killed him from an all time legacy perspective because it's going to be tough for his resume to make up for lost time. GGG is in a similar boat because of the wasted years in Germany before he got here.

He is a sure fire HOF'er though.

 

In oder to say if a fighter is or not an ATG you need to wait for him to finish his career. (unless extremelly obvious cases like pac or floyd). Anyway, ward has a lot, and I mean A LOT, of chances of becoming an atg.

 

no, it just so far seals his elitehood, and puts a foot in door for hof.

 

In 96 Chavez is 34, a bit past it, and all of his best wins are already a couple of years behind him. He's 5'7 fighting a guy who's 5'10 and 11 years younger than him. By the second fight two years later, Chavez is totally gone.

Whitaker doesn't even have one win after his fight with De La Hoya. You could argue that he was shot by this point, but he still managed to outland De La Hoya by about 40 punches, even though his punches didn't have the same kind of power that De La Hoya's did. You're right you could score this one either way depending on whether you consider damage more important than defense and ring generalship. Still, Whitaker is like 5'6" and hopelessly outgunned by De La Hoya. It's not exactly a fair fight let alone one to crow over.

Every generation does this picking off the old timers who aren't what they used to be but still have profitable names to build a reputation on. That's all Canelo's done with Cotto and Mosley and tried to do with Mayweather. That's what Terry Norris was doing with Ray Leonard. The new guard has to beat the old guard but their real test is their contemporaries and how many young lions of the next generation they can hold their own against.

 

Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, and Floyd Mayweather managed without that many fights. It can be done. You just need to weight climb and beat some really solid fighters.

 

It's possible, but he's behind the 8 ball as far as timing and matchmaking goes to catch up. A successful move to Cruiser or taking out the top contenders at LHW for at least a couple years would go a long way towards that.

 

Maybe, his friend Bernard knows a good doctor who could help him with his 'longevity.' Help him come up with a good diet, greens and ****.

 

168 was stacked when Ward entered the Super Six. He was a 1:6 underdog to win it and basically mopped the floor with those guys. Kessler and Froch are borderline Hof.

The Dawson win was a big deal too. It's made out like he was zombie but Dawson couldn't deal with ambush tactics well which is why he looked so bad. Ward basically did a much more comprehensive version of what Pascal did.

And then there's Kovalev.

Oscar may have more depth but he didn't really pull it all together like Ward. Ward was basically unbeatable at 168. Also, Pac hurts Oscar's legacy. I'm not sure why you mentioned that.

 

Ward is now up there with Mayweather, Pacquiao, Roy Jones, Hopkins and Calzaghe as greats from recent times. All those guys are top 50 ATG's and in the Case of May and Pac top 20.

 

Oscar never beat a fighter on Kovalev's level that comprensively. Ditto Kessler, Froch, and Dawson.

De La Hoya's career is full of inconsistencies in performance. Hence, his resume is full of fights that could've gone either way. Ward has one instance of that and it's in a fight where he got caught early with a big shot.

I'm not even saying Ward is ahead of Oscar. They're just close and Ward can pull away if he keeps fighting.

 

Because I believe in taking it all into account. I also believe Oscar's era was more stacked than the Super Six Andre fought in. That's just my opinion though

Here's some facts instead: Andre won his first title when he was 25, beating Kessler. Perfectly good and impressive by any measure. Kessler was very good.

By the age of 25, Oscar was a 4 division champ, had 17 title fights, and had defeated multiple hall of famers.

Just two different caliber levels of competition, and Oscar's got too much depth to overcome unless Andre really amps things up in the latter stage of his career. Right now, its an easy call for me.