Is Ward now an All Time Great? (As in top 100 of all time)

Are you serious? Mosley is a lower tier ATG, and Kovalev is not even a Hall of Famer. Mosley's resume easily trumps Kovalev's. Prime De La Hoya, Antonio Margarito, Fernando Vargas X2, Philip Holiday, John John Molina, Jesse James Leija, Ricardo Mayorga, Luis Collazo.

Contrast that with very old Hopkins, Pascal, and an either-way type of fight with Ward. That's not bad, but it's not better. Lesser top wins, less depth.

Besides, that's just one win. De La Hoya has several wins as good as Kovalev.

No, Trinidad was a much more accomplished fighter than Kovalev, just as deadly, and De La Hoya outboxed him in a clinic. The only controversy is the fact that it's one of the most famous robberies of the era. The fight wasn't close, and there was no controversial foul stoppage. It's a better win in every way save for the fact Trinidad was never hurt.

There's no point in blaming Oscar for a blatant robbery. Losing the last 3 rounds when you've definitely won 7 or 8 of them means you won. Point blank. If the judges want to rob you they'll do it anyway. One of the judges even gave Oscar the 12th-a round he clearly lost-because he had scored earlier rounds incorrectly for Trinidad and needed to make it look legitimate. The last 3 rounds have nothing to do with that, they stole rounds from him.

He beat Trinidad, plain and simple. So there's nothing to suggest Ward operates on a higher level when he never fought a still game Whitaker, or a Mosley, or even an Ike Quartey.

 

I mean who else is there? It's not like Ward ducked any slick fighters. He fought the best during his era. The only person he missed out on was Bute who isn't too slick. That's just the hand he was dealt in this era. Looking at things like speed and power in isolation to determine greatness seems odd to me.

 

I think the Trinidad performance is as dominant as any Ward performance. Same with Mosley 2. And if you think Wards are more dominant, you have to factor the fact that they were in fact lesser fighters. Dominating the B fighters is not as good as competitively beating the A fighters.

Plus Oscar had some downright scary performances against his B fighters.

 

I've scored the fight and can't see a case for Trinidad, and so it's a clear Oscar win in my eyes. I don't see someone having a valid scorecard for Trinidad.

I think it's a great win for Ward but Kovalev is not as good as Trinidad. Trinidad is a Hall of Famer and borderline ATG (he's not one but he almost makes it). Kovalev likely won't end up in the hall of fame. He had a scary aura and some impressive performances but he's not as good as Trinidad. Oscar also didn't need a 2nd crack at him to win definitively. He was simply robbed of a clear clinical victory.

And again, Oscar has several more wins that trump Ward's best. Their resumes aren't comparable.

Quartey and Whitaker were not comparable to Froch and Kessler. I mean that's absurd. Quartey and Froch maybe, but the Whitaker Oscar fought is miles better than both. As a pair of wins Oscar's are clearly better. Kovalev is closer to a Quartey type of fighter; not great in his own right but with a difficult style that could give fighters across multiple eras trouble.

 

A diminished Whitaker is still better than Kessler and Froch. You can see that with a simple eye test, his skills were very much intact and his defense was still far above any of Ward's opponents.

Froch has Quartey beat on resume, Kessler doesn't. Though I think most would say Quartey was the better head to head fighter.