"Marciano was the hardest puncher I ever seen" - Don Turner

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Yes thats the book

 

Maybe he needed it to look convincing. Considering how crude rocky was, how much experience and skill moore had, and the odds, not that hard to believe.

 

The mind reels....

 

Because he came up in the era and learned boxing in the 1950s and was probably around the trainers and veterans who were around Rocky. In some subsequent posts I've seen you've thoroughly doubted all of that, for some inexplicable reason.

The idea that a man who boxed professionally from 1959 to 1968 in major American cities and went into training boxers shortly after that would have rubbed shoulders with a whole host of people who were deeply knowledgeable about Marciano throughout that period and before it seems to escape you. I don't understand that at all. Turner very possibly sparred and trained with men who had sparred and trained with or around Marciano just a couple of years before. In fact it would be more remarkable if he never did.
Don Turner says he was watching Ezzard Charles spar when he (Turner) was just 12 years old. You probably doubt that too.

You've been trashing Turner since page 1 of this thread.

Fair enough, you can say his opinion is just his opinion and won't change yours. That's fine. But attacking his credentials, diminishing his knowledge and straight up doubting his history is poor form.

 

No, his greatest claim to fame would be training Holyfield to defeat Mike Tyson in one of the greatest upsets of all time.

Note that Holyfield didn't get rid of Turner following the Moorer defeat and in fact Turner stayed with Holyfield for the next eight or nine years, through many victories, including a revenge win over Moorer.

You can trash any trainer based on mistakes or losses. It's a cheap shot to try to make that the summary of his career.

 

Actually Don Turner says that his first professional trainer was Charley Goldman and that Goldman would sit and talk about Marciano all the time. Considering this was just a few years after Marciano retired I'd say that's better knowledge and closer to events than any of us here.
Of course, someone could doubt everything Don Turner says but for what reason I do not know.

 

He states on the interview," I was there," I doubt he ever saw Marciano fight, he was too young.I've never read that he was mentored by Goldman as Reznik claims, have you? Two news reports state that Turner convinced Evander Holyfield to discard Ace Marotta as his cut man because in his view he was an unnecessary expense,he further said paying for a separate cut man is a scam,a con. Holyfield was subsequently cut in the first Moorer fight for which Turner was in his corner Turner was unable to staunch the blood from the cut and Holyfield said it hampered him all through the fight.
Poor form?

 

If you can produce a primary source in which Turner says that, then I would be happy to concede he has that second hand knowledge of Marciano,and that it is insider knowledge that trumps what we/I know. None of which would mean I agree with his opinion that Marciano was the hardest puncher ever. I don't doubt everything he says, I just found some of his comments hard to swallow ,he was coming out of an arena after seeing his fighter get beat so he probably wasn't in the best of moods.

Marciano landing the first punch on Wlad and its all over,Marciano beating Byrd and Wlad together that sort of thing,
I expect that kind of stuff from fan boys, not pro trainers.

 

Excuse me I'll just go and slash my wrists.

ps Did Holyfield reinstate a cut man in his corner after the Moorer debacle, yes or no?

If he did, who was right and who was wrong? NB I agree with Turner on one point the greatest heavyweight he trained was Larry Holmes.

 

I hope not.

I don't think Holyfield reinstated a cut man. He retired.
He came back the following year. I believe he was cut again in the Mercer fight, and again Turner received critcism. Whatever. It was a good performance from Holyfield anyway.
Holyfield carried on employing Turner. I don't know when or whether he employed a cut man beyond the Mercer fight.

 

Maybe I was too harsh on Turner , he did win Trainer Of The year once but that," I was there ,"grated on me a bit, because chronologically it didn't add up. Anyway Eddie Futch is my man ,followed by Ray Arcel. I used to go and get coffee for Futch out at Pompton lakes and he would sit me on his knee and tell me all about Joe louis ,and Holman Williams.













What a bullsh*tter he was!

 

I don't know. He was probably too poor to attend a Marciano title fight. He wasn't too young.
He grew up watching Ezzard Charles train, he says. Whether he ever watched or glimpsed Marciano train or spar I don't know.

I'm not saying the Holyfied cut man episodes didn't happen. I don't know the full details and nor do you. From the reports I think Turner was at some fault, yes.
But I'm wondering why you brought it up and called it his claim to fame.

The man trained Larry Holmes for the Mercer fight, he trained Holyfield for the Tyson fight and lots of other victories (beyond a stage when everyone thought Holyfied was finished). He's a respected and accomplished trainer. He's trained a lot of good fighters. And he's made some mistakes, as we all have.
I'm wondering why you're highlighting the negatives.

 

They are all great trainers.