Do you consider James J Jeffries an ATG?

But Ed, is your memory good for 30 years? Many of the same people who saw Jeffries, Fitz or Johnson fight, also saw Louis. They gave their opinion and Johnson was no where near as popular as Joe Louis.

The trouble for Louis is he didn't beat a top champion in his prime outside of Schemling, who also beat him. The best Louis fought was Schemling, Walcott, M Baer, Charles and Marciano. If you think Walcott won the first match as 2.3 of those in boxing at the fight did, he's 3-4 in these fights...I know he was older for Charles and Marciano. But did he fight better?

Johnson ripped Louis and his style badly.

Like I said before the older timers with good clear film are well perceived, but those with hard to view film or none are forgotten.

 

Oh, the private fight offer happened. Johnson approached Jeffries in his bar uninvited and asked for a match.

Jeffries who did not know a lot about Johnson, except him losing to Choynski said he would not draw files, but offered him a private fight on the spot. Johnson quickly exited.

Should Johnson have agreed to it? If he really wanted a boxing fight with a larger purse or a chance to fight Jeffries you might argue he should have taken it. Win, lose or draw, each man would have their own story setting up a prize ring fight. The press would have loved it.

But like I said if there was a $100,000 purse in 1905 for Jeffries v Johnson, you could argue Jeffries takes the money, as he only made about 30-40K max in any of his fights. Johnson in 1905 was not viewed as a world beater and Jeffries back then was about 30 in his prime.

If Johnson had to retreat and was out worked day Hart, what chance would he really have vs Jeffries in 1905? Even the poster Mcvey said not much of one, so there you have it.

 

Utter cr*p? Jeffries said," I'll go down in the cellar with you ,"Johnson said," I aint no cellar fighter". Why would he want to fight Jeffries for nothing? He wanted the title and he knew as soon as he got his chance he would be champion ,Jeffries ducked him simple!

 

I would have to say that Jim Jeffries did a better job of meeting the top contenders of his title reign than Jack Dempsey, or Jack Johnson for that matter.

The fact that some of them were small is irrelevant, if they were legitimately the best contenders available.

 

Johnson and Langford stayed in the rankings and to some extent so did Sullivan how do you account for that ?
How do you account for the fact that Jack Johnson is on every credible list and I've got 27 I can post right now?
The list above has Muhammad Ali at number 10 and Louis at number 8, no further comment is necessary.

 

Pity he didn't do it in the order that would have made chronological sense.

 

Don't tell me about boxing rings you chump, you never boxed I have!

 

Do you know why this is absolute boll*cks? Because the list is a Survey Of Old Timers and it was published in1975 not the 60's!

Survey of Old Timers (Encyclopedia of World Boxing Champions, John McCallum), 1975

1. James J. Jeffries
   
   
2. Jack Johnson
   
   
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
   
   
4. James J. Corbett
   
   
5. Jack Dempsey
   
   
6. John L. Sullivan
   
   
7. Gene Tunney
   
   
8. Joe Louis
   
   
9. Rocky Marciano
   
   
10. Muhammad Ali

 

I get that, but there wasn’t a Sam Langford or Harry Wills type contender, who was the outstanding challenger for years on end without ever getting a title shot.

 

Published in 1975, but the actual survey vote was NOT in 1975. Have you learned anything yet?

25 x 25!

 

FALSE!

 

It is irrelevant to his time but it is relevant in an ATG discussion. No heavyweight champion beyond Jack Johnson would have survived the ATG discussion and received such accolades if they were modern sized fighting rehydrated 160-175 PD fighters as proof of their greatness

 

No kidding look at this list and tell me the old timers weren't partial the their time.

 

No pro fighter is accepting a fight in a basement with the worlds hwt champion. Johnson as would every other challenger would decline such an offer. The entire idea is irrelevant and has nothing to do with anything.

 

There was Johnson in1904 and 5, Fitz from 1900 to 1902.