Would a prime, undefeated cooney have stopped the Liston of Miami?

Anyone who lived through the era would never support the idea of Cooney beating Sonny Liston. Cooney was brought along very carefully fed only old washed up 70s contenders. All his management wanted was a title shot to cash out. They knew a white undefeated hwt fighting a black champion would draw big bucks. Holmes destroyed Cooney as did lowly Spinks. Liston with the power he possessed would seriously damage the glass chinned Cooney.

 

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Wow! First off. I lived thru it. Don't tell me second hand knowledge of it. Who is Perry? How old are you kid? Just reading your posts a person can tell you are young and never fought or trained anyone. And what does that have to do with history back anyway. Would that make anyone say a Scott Frank or Ron Stander or Gerry Cooney a boxing expert because they fought? You're youth and lack of experience and boxing history shows with ever poster. Cooney beating 64 Sonny Happy 4th of July dude. Everybody h as s their heroes. I'm sure you are right and the beastly Cooney would run through heavyweight history with barely a black eye if matched against the greatest fighters ever.

 

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Leotis Martin was a good boxer who managed to last long enough to catch a tired old Liston exhausted in the 9th round.
Cooney wouldn't last that long. He'd be hammered in 5 or 6 rounds most likely. Against a prime Liston he'd be destroyed in 2.

Cooney never knocked out anyone really good.
Yes, I'm sure he had power, but lots of fighters have power.

 

Liston was not at his sharpest in `64 but he still have enough left to stand toe to toe with a stationary guy like Cooney. Sonny may have looked slow trying to track down a 22 year old Cassius Clay but he is not going to have to look for Jerry Cooney. I think it would be exciting to watch but eventually Liston tears him up. That jab alone would make a mess of Cooney`s face.

Sonny Liston KO 3

 

Morlock....are you high? Every post I am explaining why Liston kos Cooney. Get a new pair of glasses!

Also wrong again I'll be 58 in November.

 

A. I was not too impressed with Larry in that fight & it certainly shows him going downhill. The earlier versions of Holmes would have capitalized on that early knockdown and pressed on the gas and stopped Cooney right then and there. The fight should not have gone to the 13th round. And that was not all that big of a right hand Larry hit him with anyway and there's Cooney on the deck. I know where I watched it, all the gamblers who had their $$$ on Cooney pretty much gave up when he hit the deck. Gerry was very lucky Holmes never did have a left hook to throw off his jab because he was wide open for it. Later on, Spinks sure had that punch in his arsenal.

B. Lots of folks were siding with Cooney going into the fight. It was not a case of the guy being a 4-1 underdog or anything. I got in at 7-5 or 6-5, I can't quite recall. But the thought was Holmes was slipping and this guy might land his big punch and stop him. Certainly a more respectable title challenger than some of the other guy's Holmes had been fighting.

C. Like I said earlier, this was all based on 3 things; the Lyle ko/Norton ko/ and some inactivity. That's what he brought into the bout. But I can't think of too many credible opponents I can think of the ancient Lyle beats. He was ruined by Foreman and was long past the stage of an impressive result or impressive showings. And I thought the ref stopped the bout late in the Ledoux fight and Norton had lost by stoppage. Lots of people did. And if there's one thing Scott Ledoux does not have is "ko by" results in his ledger against top opponents. He either lost or went the distance, but no stoppages. The Cobb fight was another razor thin win for Norton. And Cobb was no big name fighter at the time they fought either and more of a blip on the radar screen.

E. Rappaport and Jones take a lot of blame. Well deserved. And so does Valle. But DKP was the stronghold player in the sport and sure didn't mind breaking contracts. So Gerry himself could have fired his management team at any point and selected the promotions of Arum or DKP. He didn't. But he had the ability to. He could have even signed up with Smith.

F. Regarding Liston, for Gerry to land his left hook, he is going to land it how? A counter of a right hand thrown by Sonny? Or Cooney is going to parry a punch and catch and fire? Or does he land a lead left hook while Liston stands there? Because I don't see it. I see the Liston jab setting the tone of the fight immediately and moving Cooney. And then Gerry spending time re shuffling his feet and trying to reset himself. Backing up. And Cooney looks like a giraffe in the legs department doing anything but going straight forward. While he's trying to regain his balance, Liston follows up with another jab or that great left hook off the jab or a right hand. And Gerry is not blocking that second punch. His defense is horrible at it & guy's like Spinks and Holmes cleaned up on that. 40 year old washed up heavies didn't but the window is wide open. And if Gerry is fortunate enough to trade left hooks with Sonny, I don't like the Liston chances, I love them. Because he is far more durable of the 2.

 

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Young had not had a big win in like what, 4 years? Dino was a face first fighter looking to exchange and trade. And he went downhill quick himself after the Foreman fight. Philip Brown was a sparring partner for lots of guys. Lyle and Norton's form going into the fight has been discussed.

That's landing a left hook against fighters no longer A grade but B or C grade. Liston is an A grade fighter. What A grade fighters did Cooney land the left hook on? He couldn't even penetrate Spinks defense to land and he had every possible physical advantage going into the fight. How long it take Tyson in Spinks' next fight to penetrate that defense? It was not an insurmountable task to do.


A fighter has to have the ability to land his punches through the opponents defense. That is what it all boils down to. And most folks think Cooney's defense is no match whatsover for the types of punches this opponent throws. You do.

Defensively, I think Liston at least kept his hands up and actually used ringsmarts during a round. Moved his head. I think Cooney needs superior footwork to give him proper angles to penetrate Liston's defense. Then, he can land a left hook.

And another bad habit of Cooney's is his non existent ability to counterpunch. That'd help a bunch against this guy. It's not there. He pauses and lets the other guy do something and then when he's finished, Gerry begins. Not exactly a Napoles in there. Nope. A Ruddock. All he did was to parry punches late. About like Weaver. He'd try to slap the punch away and the opponent has already brought his hands back or is throwing another punch. It's like a metronome set on slow speed and the other guy is working in double speed. That parrying style requires quick reflexes like Holmes used and not slow reflexes like Cooney and Weaver used---way way too easy to solve.

 

No, but may have provided a few seconds of uncomfortable moments for him.

 

Cooney has that punch but my concern for him would be his frame of mind. He would have to be the boss with Liston. He is bigger but Sonny carried that intimidation aura around him. IDK because Cooney didn't give us enough after Holmes.

 

Maybe the fight is close....then Liston's corner "juices" Sonny's gloves on request, and C00ney motivates (an oxymoron) in retreat around the ring for a full round?

 

He'd basically be fighting Cleveland williams again, but with an upgraded left hook.