What sub 200 lbs fighters would you pick to upset prime Ali/Holmes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by superman1986, Jul 9, 2017.


  1. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    To me, Holmes and Ali bridged the gap between modern super heavyweight sized heavies and the previous cruiserweight size heavies. Those 2 could fit into either era and as such, I can see them beating a super heavyweight like say Wladimir Klitchsko, but having trouble with an Ezzard Charles.

    Because they didn't hit as hard as say Anthony Joshua or Riddick Bowe or Lennox Lewis, so smaller heavies could likely withstand the power of an Ali or Holmes and the height and reach difference wouldn't be as great. But the main thing would have been the punching power.

    Now I'd favor both over the following fighters but these are the sub 200 lbs fighters I feel would have the best chance at an upset victory, not necessarily in that order :

    Jersey Joe Walcott - 6' 196 lbs
    Ezzard Charles - 6' 185 lbs
    Rocky Marciano - 5'10 184 lbs
    Billy Conn- 6' 174 lbs
    Evander Holyfield - 6'2 190 lbs

    IMO, these guys would have the best chance of pulling off the upset. You may throw in the 193 lbs version of Roy Jones Jr.

    Now, there are some legit 200+ pound heavies id favor these guys against. For instance id favor cruiserweight Holyfield over say Ron Lyle or Ezzard Charles over Mac Foster. So i don't think it's impossible. But with Ali/Holmes you'd obviously have to favor them, but I still think these guys could pull off the upset.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Michael and Leon Spinks ?
     
  3. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Leon Spinks.....big fat NO!

    Michael Spinks, I think the heavyweight, 200+ pound version would have to show up for that party. That's why I didn't put him on the list.
     
  4. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    At their prime best Ali and Holmes should be favored over most all past hwt champions. They both proved themselves in tough fights against tough competition. However in terms of lighter hwts the advantage both men had in terms of speed can be diminished. Taking this into account I would say the following <190 pound former hwt champions had the best opportunity to upset prime Ali and Holmes:

    Dempsey - very quick well conditioned powerful hwt.
    Tunney - very quick well conditioned hwt with exceptional boxing ability.
    Marciano - highly durable well conditioned KO puncher.

    I do not believe Charles or Walcott could beat prime Ali or Holmes.

    Holyfield as hwt champion (post Douglas) never scaled 190 pounds or less unless I am mistaken.
     
  5. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Joe Louis is in for a shout without a doubt, you can doubt his footwork but he was a very dangerous opponent indeed.
     
  6. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    I forgot about Dempsey and Tunney. And I was referencing the cruiserweight version of Evander Holyfield before he moved up to heavyweight.
     
  7. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    I considered Louis to be 200+ lbs that's why I didn't include him. From 1939 on, he was about the same size as an early 90s Holyfield or even close to a late 70s Holmes.

    Louis was 6'2 207 lbs vs Abe Simon in 1942 and Holyfield was 6'2 208 lbs vs Foreman in 1991. Plus, while Louis could lose to both, if he did win, I can't say I'd go so far as to class it as an upset. Depending on who you ask, it could be expected.
     
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Louis kos Holmes but loses to Ali. Ali was much more elusive.

    Louis best weight as per Louis was 202. He was not a 190 pound hwt.

    Holy never fought as a hwt at 190 pounds so he would be excluded from this analysis. Both Ali and Holmes would beat Holy.
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You'd have to give Marciano a decent chance but he's not going to be a favourite.

    Louis might get Holmes, depends on how the jabs mesh, maybe. I'd make Louis a favourite here maybe, slender.
     
  10. superman1986

    superman1986 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Well I meant any fighter under 200 lbs whether or not they fought at heavyweight. But if Holyfield was around before 1980, at 190 lbs, he'd have fought at heavyweight. That's why I included him. But if anyone think a welterweight could have upset Ali or Holmes, they are welcome to include him. Of course, we will all be expecting him to show his work

    I.E. if someone thinks that Floyd Mayweather circa 2006 could upset a circa 1980 Larry Holmes, then they can include him, but there will be lots of follow up questions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
  11. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Dempsey had a terrific body attack, atg left hook, and excellent counter ability. He could do a number on Ali but because of styles. More versatile than Frazier.

    Dempsey beats Larry Holmes.
     
  12. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    None for Ali.
    But if I had to pick, I would choose Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano.
    I favor all three of them against Holmes.
     
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