GOAT Cameroonian boxer?

IB funfact: Lontchi was a training buddy and sparring partner of his far more successful fellow Quebecois-Cameroonian, our Ngoudjo, both in the stable of Howard Grant. (also Lucian Bute's coach, and Otis Grants brother)

 

No, son, don't go to a boxing gym and learn valuable defensive skills, that's way too dangerous. Pick the path toward exchanging haymakers with 6oz gloves instead!

 

A couple more Olympians who set up shop in the UK to box for pay and went bust:

http://boxrec.com/boxer/707923

http://boxrec.com/boxer/671353


Literally just the four guys in the Republic's almost seventy years of existence, all in the same B+ fringe world class range.

 

Worth noting that only HNN is apt to do anything to increase his legacy from this point forward. Takam and to a lesser extent Bika still might, conceivably, but they're pretty old. The former has fought a couple of no-marks since the Parker loss but is 36 years old and not seemingly on a fast track returning to contention; the latter has some domestic rust shaker dates lined up for the rest of the year (https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/sakio-bika-vs-luke-sharp-the-return-of-the-scorpion.589999/) but is also in an outsider position at the moment. El Fenomeno is still in his prime, and is guaranteed to be in big fights in the near future since he does hold a version of a world title belt.

 

Worth noting that only HNN is apt to do anything to increase his legacy from this point forward. Takam and to a lesser extent Bika still might, conceivably, but they're pretty old. The former has fought a couple of no-marks since the Parker loss but is 36 years old and not seemingly on a fast track returning to contention; the latter has some domestic rust shaker dates lined up for the rest of the year (https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/sakio-bika-vs-luke-sharp-the-return-of-the-scorpion.589999/) but is also in an outsider position at the moment. El Fenomeno is still in his prime, and is guaranteed to be in big fights in the near future since he does hold a version of a world title belt.

 

So, to fairly assess their résumés in a side by side comparison, I've collated the best half a dozen names for each. This is the most reasonable average number after which you are left with, in virtually every case, mostly forgettable stiffs of little to no import. (that bottom-of-the-barrel scraping point at which, even if you find recognizable names, they are not recognizable versions of the selves they used to be when relevant)

I've put them in more or less descending order, top coups first.

• Bika: Marco Antonio Peribán*, Nikola Sjekloca, Jaidon Codrington, Sam Soliman, Dyah Davis, Peter Manfredo Jr.

• HNN: Ryōta Murata*, Alfonso Blanco, Avtandil Khurtsidze, Maksim Bursak, Curtis Stevens, Giovanni Lorenzo

• Ngoudjo: Randall Bailey, Souleymane M'Baye, Emanuel Augustus, John Brown, Eloy Rojas, JC Rodríguez

• Takam: Tony Thompson, Michael Grant, Francois Botha, Marcin Rekowski, Gbenga Oluokun, and Zine Eddine Benmakhlouf. (Sprott was beyond shot to bits)

Ick...so that effectively rules out the latter two from the conversation unless you were to argue with h2h ability weighted very heavily over résumé (and happen to believe that Ngoudjo and/or Takam were that much superior to HNN and/or Bika in h2h pound for pound terms). With all due respect to both, if we are boiling it down to "what did you do, who did you beat?" they are struck out upon first glance here:

To wit, Bailey and M'Baye are respectable but were both old (although, funnily enough, both still active now a decade later), and Ngoudjo barely squeaked by the former. Augustus is a premium journeyman scalp, as is Brown. Rojas was a former champ, but was 38 years old when he fought Ngoudjo. Rodríguez had a fine career, holding the Mexican 140lb title and making nine defenses, but he never quite made it over the hump to make waves in the international competition pool. As for Takam, his best three were in their forties when he fought them and the next three are decidedly mediocre space-fillers at Euro level (and not in the sense that any of them could ever hold a European title, but in the sense that you beat these guys a fight or two before you challenge for a Euro title).

*cont*

 

So, in a two horse race we have Sakio and Hassan. Now, of course, the greatest either of them ever stepped in the ring with are Ward and Calzaghe - and yes, Bika forged a reputation on those nights (though it was more about him making those greats look relatively bad, than him looking particularly good). He also lost to Dirrell, Soliman, Mendy, Bute and Stevenson, while N'Dam lost to Quillin and Lemieux. But we're focusing on the positive results here - not draws or losses. So let's dig in.

1. MD12 Peribán vs. SD12 Murata
2. UD12 Sjekloca vs. KO1 Blanco
3. TKO8 Codrington vs. UD12 Khurtsidze
4. UD8 Soliman vs. UD12 Bursak
5. TKO10 Davis vs. UD12 Stevens
6. TKO3 Manfredo Jr. vs. UD12 Lorenzo

Peribán and Murata - both their biggest moment, both where they finally became immortalized...and both very controversial. Now, to be clear, I had Bika defeating Peribán 115-113 on the night, but acknowledged in the RBR that Bika was leaving the door open for judges to go against him and that it could reasonably be argued to swing either way. As for HNN vs. Murata, there was a lot of breathless groupthink in the aftermath where it got tarred as the 'robbery of the century' or some rubbish like that, but IMO really it was a case of lots of close rounds and people having stylistic preferences and projecting those onto the fight. Does that mean I thought Ryōta should've lost? No. But it wasn't this "one for the books" major travesty of scoring that some make out. I urge anybody that feels different to watch it again, noting which rounds they feel are unshakably Murata's, and then double-checking if maybe (just maybe) they were ignoring some of N'Dam's work in those rounds because they like Murata's style more. If these were legitimate, crystal-clear decisions with no question marks, the greater would be Murata, no question. As it stands, that one is more controversial and was for the lesser slice of the alphabet org pie (a vacant upgrade from the interim WBA belt, versus the storied Green Belt), so this one I call a push or, if anything, slight edge to Bika...even though his was a disappointing performance with an okay fighter, while HNN (even if you thought he lost) put on a terrific performance and generated lots of numerically tight frames with a stellar young fighter.

Sjekloka and Blanco - in both cases, a zero was taken, but context matters. The Montenegrin was 25-0 but largely unknown and came in a 6/1 underdog. To his credit, he proved to be a gutsy and capable fighter not just in this UD loss but in his subsequent three (and draw with Stieglitz). Even so, he is an overachiever whose destiny was probably always to have a nice EBU reign, not to become the world number one, not even close. Now that isn't to say Blanco is a world-beater himself, but he was generating a lot of buzz after nabbing the interim title with an eye-catching performance against Ghost Khomitsky. I won't hold it against Bika that he didn't stop the brave Sjekloka (neither could Abraham nor Mundo Smith), and he barely lost a round - but it's hard to argue with a savage, highlight reel KO1, and HNN delivered that outta nowhere on poor Blanco, killing that hype train before its caboose had left the depot. This was also technically a world title bout (interim WBA), so it outranks the WBC super middleweight eliminator. Edge to HNN.

Codrington and Khurtsidze - the Contender finale main event was a fun brawl. I was there, sitting ringside. Maybe the best fight I've ever seen live. It was still, though, at the end of the day, Jaidon Codrington. The original "Puffy Nips" (years before Errol Spence Jr.) - the guy that proclaimed himself a "chin-checker" and went on to get his own checked with hilariously ironic regularity. The guy was Tyrone Brunson writ large. Tornado Khurtsidze, on the other hand, is a massively underrated victory. HNN repelled his tireless, gangbusters swarming attack to cleanly outpoint him in their primes, and remains the only person to ever beat the feisty little Georgian since a growing pains stumble a couple of years into his pro career. Just recently, several years after their battle, Khurtsidze grabbed the WBO title and was set to face Billie Joe Saunders in a highly anticipated match before legal troubles derailed him (perhaps for good)...and while BJS was the betting favorite opinions were split and nobody expected an easy night for Saunders. You don't get an easy night, with Khurtsidze. Edge to HNN.

Soliman and Bursak - yes, he would later go on to catch Sturm at the end of his run and claim IBF gold at middleweight, but the version of Soliman on whom Bika got his revenge in their rematch was sandwiched in between losses to his other, even more familiar rival Anthony Mundine both seven months before and seven months after this fight. We also never got to see the full unedited footage (as The Contender only showed highlights set to dramatic music, except for the finals) so we don't really know how fairly it was scored. Bursak, meanwhile, goes under the radar as yet another blue chip prospect that for a variety of reasons didn't ever quite deliver on his potential (like Matvey Korobov and Denis Boytsov) and sure didn't look the goods when he fought HNN, but that is because of the masterful counter punching clinic that N'Dam put on to make him seem amateurish when his résumé before and since indicates he is a solid pro, if shy of elite. Call them roughly a par in terms of quality, and you have Bika taking a somewhat narrow UD in eight versus HNN pitching a near shutout across twelve. Edge to HNN.

Davis and Stevens - now, I like the son of Howard Davis Jr., quite a bit. He put on a string of spirited, entertaining performances beginning with his television debut with another son of a legend, Aaron Pryor Jr. He is decidedly average, though. Stevens, while limited, has the great equalizer of power in either fist and has a fair amount of skill for a puncher...and Showtime has proven capable of hanging with the big names in a manner that Davis hasn't, and has a deeper résumé to show for it. Stevens - who despite his diminutive stature has campaigned extensively at super middle - would also unquestionably steamroll Davis and knock him out a few rounds faster than did Bika. Edge to HNN.

Manfredo Jr. and Lorenzo - again, if you asked my sentimental favorite between them, it would be the Pride of Providence, hailing from just around the bend from me. Objectively, though, you have someone that acquitted himself well in challenges of Sylvester and Sturm (and was competitive enough with Sylvester and Raúl Márquez that some thought he deserved the nod in those encounters) compared with a regional club fighter who only became a household name because of a reality TV show and is the very definition of "ESPN level". He lost to a post Calzaghe version of Jeff Lacy, FFS! Nine or ten years ago, when it would've made sense, if they fought, Lorenzo probably decisions Manfredo Jr. or makes him quit on his stool. Edge to HNN.

Extending benefit of the doubt, let's widen our net to include a seventh best/honorable mention win. That means, for Bika - another Contender alum, Donny McCrary. Whoops, that's a steep decline even from Manfredo (who destroyed McCrary early for the North American 168lb title). Beyond that? Not even worth looking at. From the eight slot down, nothing but slop. Now, with HNN you have at least half a dozen more so-so ancillary wins that are each better (or at the very least, no worse) than Donny freaking McCrary: Omar Gabriel Weis, Affif Belgecham, Anthony Fitzgerald, Gennady Martirosyan, Fulgencio Zuniga, and Mehdi Amar.

So, for those saying this is open and shut for Bika - have a closer peek. Are you sure you're maybe not being swayed in your estimation of his worth by how much his wonky style and roughness threw Calzaghe and Ward off their games and made them look relatively more uncomfortable than we've usually seen them? You don't want to give too much credit for playing the role of spoiler, right? There are no second place trophies in boxing, and not even Bika thinks he got screwed on these occasions. He did what he set out to do, gave it his best, and left Ward and Calzaghe bruising and knowing they had been in a fight, but they still proved he was beneath them, for all his stylistic poison. Now, do I think HNN could handle Bika? No, he'd be KTFO. But then, weight classes exist for a reason. Bika would also be KTFO by Takam, if we're going there.

IMO the GOAT boxer of Cameroonian descent, p4p, as of now, is HNN. (especially if he goes on to rack up a few respectable defenses, but he doesn't really need to)

 

You can always count on Intentional "Leeroy Jenkins" Butt to go off the chain extra.

 

Still waiting on a well thought out refutation as the Bika votes keep rollin' in...

 

Face me on the open battlefield of debate, you cowards!

 

N'Dam vs. Murata II for this fall is officially a go, btw. Purse bids opened today (will last a maximum 15 days).

Scorpion backers: if he gets a second, non-controversial win over Murata, does that change your vote?

 

Actually nevermind all that, now that Bika has whacked his way to a 7th round towel stoppage of roly poly 9½lb overweight #240 world-rated Luke Sharp, we must consider him beyond reach for HNN. Even a KO1 over GGG wouldn't be enough to catch up now.