If Ali had been around in the 40 s?

A wonderful and artful interpretation.

And by the way, the firebombing of Tokyo surpasses either of the nuke attacks, at least in short term casualties.

 

I've read that Elijah Muhammad was actually making speeches and publising articles after Pearl Harbor that supported the Japanese.

So, really this question "what would Muhammad Ali have done in ww2 ?" really boils down to :

1. Do we imagine an Ali of he 1940s who (plausibly) had joined a younger NOI ?
If not, why bother ? If we're not going to make our imaginary 1940s Ali as close to the real life 1960s one as plausible, then we could make him anything, a complete different person and then there's no point to any of this.

2. Do we believe the YOUNG Ali objected to Vietnam based on some purely independent ethical intuition or do we believe the ideology and experience of the NOI was central to his actions ?
I tend to believe the young Ali bravely stood up and took his stand on this and no one twisted his arm on this matter ....... BUT there's little doubt that his whole thinking was completely influenced by the "wisdom" of Elijah Muhammad.

Few of his American fans will want to imagine an NOI-influenced Muhammad Ali in 1940s becoming some fringe crackpot "traitor" perhaps hoping for Japanese victory but that's the people he was following.

 

The 40's Ali would have been vastly different to the 60's Ali. The 60's
Ali was fighting for Black rights .
In WW 2 it would not be a fight against discrimination but fight for
humanity.
A lot of brave men fought and loss their lives doing this and we should
never forget this ever .

 

then the law is an azz in this case.

Would you call it a crime to encroach vietnam, or to continue it? which one is the sin?

 

read more history.

yeh and the nazis exterminated WAY more jews than that too over a decade, but I mean in terms of concentrated bad per minute.

Sorry if I didnt make that clear.[/QUOTE]

 

That would be nigh on impossible unless I can quit my job. If you are offering to support me in this endeavor, your patronage will be much appreciated.

Meanwhile, the USA stands as a beacon of humanity in a dark and turbulent storm of barbarity and small mindedness. That is today's lesson.

 

1. The sect Muhammad Ali was part of were not really part of the rights movement. It's a popular myth that Ali fought for black rights in the 1960s. Floyd Patterson was probably more involved in civil rights and Ali called him an Uncle Tom. Ali spoke about the injustices but he didn't push for change.
The truth is, Ali and his ilk were a religious cult who preached separation and at least accepted the "moral basis" of segregation. They even looked at the KKK and the American Nazis for common ground. When Malcolm X was booted from the NOI it pretty much confrmed they wanted nothing to do with the progress and rights movement.
Elijah Muhammad often proclaimed Malcolm's death as God's revenge for Malcolm becoming invoved in this movement, as proof that blacks shouldn't get involved in politics of the white man. Muhammad Ali followed this.

(I'm not saying this to knock Ali, who was entitled to his beliefs, but for historical accuracy).

2. During WW2, there was significant disillusionment among black Americans about fighting the Nazis and the Japanese for so-called "democracy" that didn't include them. The black press and a lot of educated black intellectuals as well as black radicals protested the war. With good reason.
Elijah Muhammad and a few others went further, apparently rejoicing the coming destruction of America.

 

I don't agree with conscription or war.
I doubt I even believe in government.
But I wasn't on this thread to debate and philosophize on morality.

 

LOL

 

Interesting perspective Unforgiven. If Ali was around the 40's and had
dodge the draft the public in that era would not have been as forgiving
as Ali after Vietnam war.
Legendary Australian Middleweight Champion Les Darcy was accused of
dodging the draft in WW 1 and had to leave Aust to continue his career
in USA. He sadly died from medical complications from dental work
in the USA and when returned home 500 000 people paid their respects.

 

I believe there is no chance Ali would've been in the NOI during the 40's.
It wasn't big enough.

I predict, and I could easily be wrong here, that he would be a bit more like Jack Johnson in the sense that he would be crossing boundaries, but not with geopolitics.
I think he would've had the same charisma, and would've been passionate about addressing inequality.
But I think he would do so with a little less political intensity. And more with his image, the way he talks to people, his confidence, brashness, etc.

Who knows, all silly hypotheticals but it's fun to think about.

 

Yeah, everything has its time.

 

ok.

I see them as part of my one philospohy.

 

Yeah, the point is: What would have happened ?
How would the majority or the writers of history have portrayed or perceived a outspoken draft dodging black critical of America heavyweight champion during ww2?

I doubt even Muhammad Ali had the personality to change historical perceptions of the moral good of that war, and especially before the television era, and before the era of rapid black empowerment.
He'd be remembered as a traitor and hardly remembered at all. Airbrushed from history.