Mike Tyson "weak" opposition

Vitali is not ATG material and never has been.

He doesn't belong anywhere near the top ten, maybe even top 20.

What's also funny is, Vitali fans claim he was inexperienced when he fought Lewis, yet he'd had approx 32 fights and had been pro for about 7 years.

He's the epitome of someone who looked very good against sub par opposition but was found out when he stepped up.

 

Absolutely correct. I was beginning to think i was the only one who thinks like this.

 

There is a lot of it going around.

 

Name me the top quality fighters he should have faced in his own era.

And like I said before, out of Tyson's victims do you pick to beat Vitali cos I have none, he would beat the man that sparked Tyson out as well don't you think?

 

Well if that's the case Lennox Lewis looked abysmal against this sub-par fighter and ran to the hills after agreeing to give the journeyman a rematch, I wonder why that is........

 

Vitali has weak opposition but people probably forget than a few, such as Arreola and Solis, were pretty highly rated going in to the fights.
Vitali seems good enough and consistent to beat most of Tyson's 1986-'89 run, and some of those he'd embarrass badly I suspect, but maybe he'd lose to one or two too. He never proved himself against quite that level consistently.

Tyson ranks higher than Vitali, was more proven. The level of opposition was relatively weak in comparison with what the elite ATGs beat but still a good degree stronger than Vitali's bunch.

 

I agree that you've got to rank Tyson higher but it's pretty telling that a relative unproven champion like Vitali would be favoured over Tyson's opponents during his reign.

Personally I think Vitali batters Douglas as well and goes on better than Tyson.

 

Not really. He never beat anyone who looked even remotely as good as Douglas did that night. So why would I be sure that he would beat Douglas?

But my guesses are really beside the point. What I've been saying over and over is that we don't really know how good Vitaly was because he rarely tested himself. And when he did he came up short. The best we can say of him in terms of quality wins is probably that he was unlucky not to beat Byrd. That's not the greatest epitaph, is it?

Have you understood this basic point? 'Cause it doesn't seem like you have.

 

He beat some decent fighters and outfought and was beating the best fighter on the planet when he was stopped by cuts, that much so the said fighter didn't honour him with the rematch he promised.

 

Sugar coating a pile of **** and sticking a candle in it, doesn't make it into a cake.

 

His opposition was pretty crap on the whole for such a highly rated fighter. That's the long and short of it.

And a lot is made out of his effort against Lewis. The question is, was that version of Lewis better than the one who was outboxed by Bruno or the one who arguably lost to Mercer?

Even when in his prime Lewis could blow a bit hot and cold, and in this case he was almost 38, hadn't fought in a year and carried some flab (he was likely at a career high weight).

 

I think I do agree that Tyson can rate higher than Vitali. For all he stands a good chance of beating the challengers Tyson beat it won't necessarily prove Klitschko also beats the guy to stop that run. Some champions might, its not many of them and that's because not many of their opponents really were better. At the end of the day it's still a good run and runs do have to end. It's oHe thing to match Tyson and another to surpass Tyson.

To be fair, it is difficult to say say vitali beats Douglas knowing vitali dropped the fights that he did.

I know it was Lennox Lewis that beat him but Lennox was not the same guy who wiped the floor with Ruddock, Golota, Grant and Briggs by then. You could argue that Douglas during the spell where he impressed against Mark Williams, Berbick, McCall and Tyson in back to back fights was as hard to beat as old man Lewis in his last fight. We can't say for sure.

We cannot ignore Douglas's recent form. even if previously he had not been so reliable. The key point in assessing fighters is not where they stand overall but how good they were at one point in time. Recent form is very valuable. Ask any bookie.

That's why Douglas was a better challenger than Larry Holmes. Nobody is rating Douglas over Holmes for resume but that's how it is on a fight by fight basis as a challenger to Tyson.

My only gripe with Tyson is yes he was a great champion. Yes he had a great run. But let's not pretend other great champions can't match that or pretend 50% of those challengers were Not grossly handicapped, hand picked fodder to keep him busy- just like a lot of long standing busy champions.

 

Lol. I agree.
But this whole thread was aimed at sugar coating Tyson's weak opposition too.
To be fair to Tyson his opponents weren't as bad as some people might assume, because a large part of the equation was Tyson making them look inferior by his performance.
And in several cases in Vitali's career he did something similar.

The gulf between Tyson's opposition and Vitali's is wide enough but there's a degree of overlap.
I wouldn't rely on Tyrell Biggs to beat Arreola or Solis, in all honesty.

 

I'm not saying your wrong but Douglas looked good against a 5'10 fighter with a small reach.
Douglas's overall record against ranked heavyweight is average. His performance against Tyson might have been well above average but I wouldn't read anything into how Douglas would do against a quality man his own size , nevermind someone as big as Vitali.

Of course, the general point that Douglas might have been better than anyone Vitali beat is probably valid.

 

Agreed. Whilst the real Larry Holmes, Real Tony Tubbs, Real Pinklon Thomas did not feature in fights with Mike Tyson it still relegates them to average fighters on the night. And many champions only got past those types of guys. And Those that did looked less good doing it. Tyson still met and beat good guys too. He also lost to a good guy.

On recent form Douglas would be a strong challenger for any champion. He was on a roll going in against Tyson.