Now who wins prime Calzaghe or prime Ward?

THE WELSH SLAPPER - THE OAKLAND BILLY GOAT WHO CARES

 

Ward would think a truckload of boxing gloves had fallen on his head ...

 

I wasn't looking for head buts to count so I didn't count any except the two blatant ones which opened deep gashes above the eyes. Curiously this happened as Kessler began to become a bit more effective countering Ward who had been dominating all the previous rounds.

That first head but took the vision from the left eye. But since Keller was still countering more effectively anyway, the second sideways head but was employed to open another deep gash over the right eye.

That caused the stoppage.

BTW

Ward either lunges straight in like a goat or else misses on purpose and follows through with his head sideways.

This is using an illegal weapon in the ring and one that can prove decisive since the skull bones are stronger than the facial ones and can easily shatter them. Furthermore the head isn't gloved like a fist is.

So if indeed Ward is as skilled and as gifted above other fighters as he is described-then why does he use his head to inflict that kind of illegal damage?

 

Calzaghe is the more hittable fighter and less skilled?......proof?

 

You're correct. Two butts is all it was. Kessler was free of eye cuts until round 8 when a clear accidental clash of heads accrued. The famous billy goat butt came in round 10 , but it only takes a second for heads to clash together.
All Rounds 1- 8 Ward gave Kessler a demoralising and soul destroying battering. He was never in the fight and rounds 9-11 were just as dominant even if Kessler had cuts.
Head clashes didn't determine the result in any way. Cuts happen. Head clashes happen.

Miranda butted Ward face open in round one and Ward fought the 12 and won.

Bellew suffered a horrific cut in round one vs Roberto Bolonti and it looked like the fight was going to be stopped but Bellew adapted , hung in there and won a decision.

See -

http://i1.dailyrecord.co.uk/incomin...ti-during-there-light-heavyweight-bout-at.jpg

Cuts happen.

Perhaps you viewed the fight footage that edits out all the clean work Ward done vs Kessler.

There's the fight as it happened. Ward is clearly on a different level completely.

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You are not convincing any knowledgeable fan.

Compubox stats don't allow for circumstances and they can be very misleading.

Hopkins gave him a close fight regardless of your data.

Lots of Joe's punches weren't effective, and many of them weren't accurate and were only glancing blows which landed on gloves and arms etc. All the clean effective punches came from Hopkins. Go and watch the fight. It was quality vs quantity. Joe concentrated more on volume than he did accuracy. Go and watch some gifs of the fight, as well as gifs from the Manfredo fight. Although Joe was a great fighter, he often used to throw punches that weren't punches. They were cuffs or punches that were thrown downwards like a clubbing punch coming from the bottom of his hand underneath a clenched fist. At times, he used horrible technique, really ugly and amateurish. You cannot be awarded rounds and fights just based on volume alone. Your compubox data leads us to believe that the Hopkins fight was a ridiculously easy win for Joe. Yet the fight tells a completely different story.


You keep saying that Joe would have had no fear. Well let me give you a dose of reality:

Joe would have feared Andre Ward. Because Joe would have feared losing his precious zero, and for the first time in his career, he'd have been facing a prime elite level fighter.


The reality is this:

If Joe was really good enough to have beaten Andre Ward 10 times out of 10 with no issues whatsoever, then he wouldn't have had close fights with Reid and Hopkins, and he wouldn't have been on the floor against a C/D class fighter such as Kabary Salem. (no disrespect intended)


You are kidding yourself.

You are living in a fantasy.

Sure, Joe could have beaten him. I could definitely envisage it happening. But it would have been an extremely difficult fight for him. And if you think otherwise, then you have limited knowledge on boxing, as well as the careers of both of those fighters.

 

If you seriously think the outcome of the fight would have resembled Joe's win over Lacy, then YOU are the one who's delusional.

 

Joe didn't easily handle Bernard, and the best version of Andre Ward was better than that 43 year old version of Bernatd who had to feign injury in order to gain a break.

How do you know Andre couldn't have knocked him down? Since when as Bernard been a renowned puncher?

Seriously, if you wouldn't have seen it as even being competitive, then you're either trolling, or you're completely clueless.

 

You are misunderstanding me. Of course Ward is the better boxer than Kessler is and proved it during all those previous rounds. Also, I am not denying that accidental head buts occur. Of course they will but their frequency can be drastically reduced if we are careful not to lunge forward toward our opponent head first or avoid following through with our head after throwing punches.


BTW
If you watch Alexis Arguello throw hooks, you don't see his head coming in right after. Why? Because to throw a hook you don't need your head to follow the punch in that way. If your head follows the punch then you will obviously increases the chances of slamming it into your opponents face as Horn constantly did with Pac.

So if indeed you aren't trying to foul, then why lead with your head or follow through with your head in that manner? Box in that way during many of your bouts and you will gain the reputation of winning via dirty tactics regardless of your boxing skills.

 

There are no double standards here.

Why do you keep saying: "Take away the top 2 fighters"

Because you need it to strengthen your argument?

Joe repeatedly said he wanted career defining fights against the best guys within his range. So why didn't he target those 2 fighters, instead of starving himself to make weight, to fight B and C class opposition? Answer me that.

Those 2 fighters alone made the LHW division stronger than the SMW division.

Montel Griffin will never be classed as a truly great fighter, but he was a better fighter than the likes of Robin Reid, who was seen as a top 5 fighter at SMW.

Virgil Hill was also a better fighter than most of the top SMW's of Joe's reign.

Sven Ottke was considered the best fighter throughout Joe's reign, and he was gifted wins over guys like Charles Brewer who was a B/C class fighter.

Again, as a whole, LHW was stronger.

Regarding Ward draining Dawson, he didn't. Dawson offered to go down in weight as he didn't think it would be an issue. But due to the struggles that Dawson had to endure, I can't give Ward much credit for the win.

Regarding his fights over Rodriguez and Smith etc, they were simply tune ups due to his periods of inactivity. You must know that prior to fighting Barrera and Smith, he'd hardly fought for 3 years due to contractual disputes and injuries. Each one of those guys were chosen after long lay offs, with Barrera being a "test the water" fight, which prepared him for his eventual move up to LHW. So those guys were chosen due to his circumstances. Whereas Joe regularly fought those kinds of guys on a yearly basis. Joe would never have fought a guy like Sergey Kovalev at LHW. It took him 14 years to get to LHW.

 

You haven't put forward an argument.

You want me to remove Roy and Dariusz from the debate and go from there.

I don't hate Joe, and if you go back and read my posts, I've repeatedly referred to him as a great fighter.

 

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You're so defensive.

Why would it burn him that Kessler was a so called leftover?

Life is defined by circumstances and opportunity.

Joe had the opportunity to fight an undefeated Kessler, whereas Ward didn't.

So what?

We could say that one of Joe's biggest wins (Eubank) was a Collins leftover.

It's silly.

Also, Froch should be classed as Ward's best win, as he beat him with ease, despite having a double fracture of his hand.

 

What do you want Ward to do?

Do you want him to get a time machine?

 

Hardly any of those blows were low.

I've seen the slow motion replays, the different camera angles etc.

Sergey Kovalev was broken both physically and mentally.

He quit.