Now who wins prime Calzaghe or prime Ward?

Judges cards don't mean anything, they're someone else's judgement. If you don't think the rounds in Calzaghe-Hopkins were close then you don't understand how to score a boxing match.

Ward can certainly punch as hard as Hopkins did. If you can hurt Kovalev in a move to LHW, you can definitely get Calzaghe's respect. "Workrate" in itself means nothing. The busier fighter doesn't always win. That's a stupid line of argument.

 

Nobody is saying the stats aren't accurate.

We're saying that they don't account for effective shots and they don't paint a clear picture of a fight.

They are just statistics.

Statistics don't allow for circumstances.

If you quoted those stats to someone who hadn't seen Joe's fight with Hopkins, they would have assumed that he'd have beaten Hopkins with absolute ease. Yet if they'd have watched the fight, they'd have realised that wasn't he case.

Instead of using Compubox, why don't you actually analyse the attributes and the styles of each fighter, and look at some of the other opponents they have faced etc. That's how you form a logical opinion as to what you think may have happened, not from a bunch of data.

Let's take a look at my favourite fighter - Roy Jones.

Compare the data from his fights with the data from Joe's.

What would that tell you?

Would it tell you that even in Roy's prime, Joe would still have beaten him with absolute ease, because he threw 3-4 times as many shots per round?

Comparing numbers is what a casual fan would do.

A knowledgeable fan uses his eyes and allows for fighters strengths and weaknesses, as well as a clash of styles etc.

 

Half decent? Ha!

Remove Griffin and Hill, and you're still left with Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding, Clinton Woods and Antonio Tarver etc.

They were better than almost all of Joe's opposition.

I'd check out Joe's resume before you go any further.

He was still fighting the Mkrtchyan's and Salem's of the world even in his 30's.

 

Ha!

All that data, yet history shows us that Joe had tough nights against Reid, Bernard and Bika.

Hilarious.

Reid was B class.

He lost to guys like Branco.

He gave Joe all he could handle, and Frank W wouldn't give him a rematch.


Your answer to the above = But he was injured. Ha!


You must think we've only been watching boxing for a few months.

Nobody cares about your numbers. Because even people who think that Joe beat Hopkins, know that Hopkins gave him a tough, competitive fight.

You're fooling nobody but yourself.

 

I'm sorry, you're wrong.

Compubox data says that Joe would have whipped Andre with ease.

Ha!


Great post mate.

Full of logic.

I wish you the best of luck in trying to get through to NBO.

 

He's digging his heels into the ground. But he's so out of his depth, it's not even funny.

 

So you admit that it was highly unlikely that any of the fighters you wanted Calzaghe to face would travel, even though Calzaghe was more of a draw in the UK than they where in their own country?

Also why should Calzaghe make concessions for the like of Griffin and Reggie Johnson?

You are not making sense at all, by the sounds of it you want JC to give up his belt, give up home advantage and big money to move up a division and get less pay to fight guys who you admit aren't special.

Listen to what you are saying, also you haven't explained once how Griffin or Johnson are so much better than...I'll say Reid as you keep mentioning him.

Johnson was a dud at 175.

 

You can't talk about the second fight whilst ignoring their first fight.

 

And he never fought Dirrell, even though Dirrell is one of the biggest hypejobs in recent memory at 168.

He never fought Bute either.

 

Not ducked anything as once again you don't have any points, you are irrelevant to this forum.

Don't bother replying back as you're going to be ignored, I don't mind replying to anyone who wants to talk boxing but you bring nothing to the table.

Nice try troll.

 

I just said what I thought about the first fight though.

 

Yes I know, but regarding Ward/Kovalev alot of people, Ward fans are talking as though the first fight never happened.

I had Kovalev winning the first 116-111 and I had him up 5-2 at the time of the stoppage, but Ward was coming on very strong.

What I'm getting at is Ward, at least imo was outboxed in both fights.

 

What the hell are you talking about?

The onus was on Joe to travel.

Why should he have made concessions?

Are you serious?

He repeatedly said that he wanted career defining fights, and he wanted to fight recognisable names that was within his range.

Now in the late 90's-early 00's, he was a relatively unknown fighter outside of Europe, who only held a lightly regarded title. So the only way he could obtain those fights that he supposedly wanted, was to move up to LHW and fight in the U.S. to gain exposure and to move up the rankings.

He didn't do that. Which is why he never got bigger fights earlier in his career. Not that he wanted them anyway. We know that what he said was complete nonsense. We know that because he's bragged many times of his 21 defences of his precious WBO belt.

What are you struggling to understand here?

Give up big money?

He was getting paid around £700,000 for some of his fights.

No, guys like Griffin weren't special. But fighting a guy like him who'd fought Roy and Toney twice could have been a gateway to bigger fights.

What did Joe do instead of pursuing the likes of a recognisable name in Griffin?

He fought Mario Veit twice along with Branko Sobot and Tocker Pudwill etc.

If you want to know why Griffin was a better boxer than Reid, then go and watch their fights.

 

Correct. But that's a different argument altogether.

Joe never fought Sven.

Regarding Andre Dirrell, he's obviously a very gifted fighter. A lot more gifted than the majority of guys who Joe fought. But unfortunately, for all of his talents, he's mentally weak.

 

He wasn't a huge draw either. Sky stopped showing his fights and one of his defences even landed on Eurosport before he fought the rest of his career on ITV/Setanta.

Lots of bigger opportunities were available across the pond but he kept saying his fear of flying prevented him from going after them.