Now who wins prime Calzaghe or prime Ward?

About 3 years ago now, General Zod posted up a link from the WBO. Because Joe had made a certain number of title defences, the WBO informed him that if he wished to move up to LHW at some point, they would make him the number 1 contender to their current champ. And I'm pretty sure that the link was dated 2003. So it would either have been Dariusz or Julio Gonzalez. Now that was also around the time that he knew Ottke wasn't willing to meet him at SMW. So that really was the perfect time to move up, especially considering that he really struggled to make weight and there were no other big fights on the horizon at the time. So the fact that he remained there speaks volumes.

Around 6 months ago whilst I was doing some research, I came across an old interview that Joe had given to the media. That was also from the early 00's. He spoke of how frustrated he was. And he said that if nothing changed within the next 6 months or so, he'd seriously consider moving up to LHW to face Dariusz. But 6 months later, nothing had changed. Yet predictably, he continued to defend his title at SMW. I'll have to try and find the link.

 

Can Kovalev beat Calzaghe???

 

Compared to a lot of fighters, Joe had a great career. But it could have been greater.

Even despite the injury set backs, it was all there for him.

He had the looks, the Italian heritage, the exciting, unorthodox style, and the ego etc. He could have been very popular, especially on the East coast like you've mentioned. But he didn't want it. He was content to do what Eubank had done before him, which was to just defend his WBO belt. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. But the difference between him and Eubank, was that Eubank was honest and Joe wasn't. Eubank publicly stated that he was more than content to just defend his belt, and that he never pursued the best fighters out there, and that he'd only have fought them had they have became his mandatories. Whereas Joe always played the victim of circumstances card, where he pretended that he was desperate for the big fights, but he wasn't able to obtain them.

 

They could both have beaten each other.

 

I don't see Calzaghe doing anything to Kovalev. After being dropped by both old Jones and Hopkins, I have to believe Kovalev would do serious damage from the outside with his right hand and maintain the distance too well for Calzaghe to do anything. Volume isn't saving him.

I don't really see what Calzaghe offers that's supposed to overcome Ward's skill and precision.

 

You keep harping on about European fighters having to come to America to by the sounds of it get recognition.

Flip the coin and I bet you Griffin and the like wouldn't be known in Europe.

As for RJJ v DM the fight was talked about numerous times but the sticking point was always the location of the fight as RJJ like the majority of US fighters, was unwilling to leave America and DM unwilling to leave Germany even though it would of been bigger in Germany.

Look your argument seems to revolve around the WBO belt not being recognised in the US so therefore Calzaghe should of moved up despite being able to make 168, this is nonsense. The fighter makes the belt and even if he didn't have a belt he'd still of been seen as the best in the division, he beat 8 current or former world champions during his reign.

Then when he eventually moved up he beat a top 5 P4P fighter in Hopkins, the same Hopkins who beat Tarver for tge title.

JC done good, could his resume be better? Sure but so could of Ward's he could have faced Bute, Dirrell etc.

 

If you believe all JC has is volume then I don't know what to say, that's like me saying all Ward knows how to do is wrestle, hit and hold.

 

Only in America but guess what boxing isn't America.

 

I'm not harping on, I'm giving you a dose of reality.

Yes, European fighters did have to travel over to the U.S. to gain recognition and to get themselves the best fights. How many examples do you want?

Yes, a guy like Griffin may not have been known in Europe. But again, we're looking here from Joe's perspective back in the late 90's-early 00's.

Regarding Roy leaving the U.S. no he didn't want to leave. But he was in a completely different situation to a guy like Joe. His circumstances were completely different.

What's nonsense about what I've said regarding Joe needing to have moved up earlier? Are you just being argumentative, or are you unable to grasp what I'm telling you? What's the issue? Yes, he was able to make SMW. But why did he really struggle to make weight to fight B and C class fighters, when he could have targeted better fighters, for more money, at a weight he was more suited to? The obvious answer is: Because he didn't want to. He obviously wanted an easy ride with the WBO instead. Which again, was completely fine. But he should have just put his head down and gone about his business, instead of contstanty kidding to the fans and the media that he wanted recognisable names and career defining fights. That's the only thing I have an issue with.

Regarding his overall career, yes, of course he did good. Compared to most fighters he had a phenomenal career. He was a great fighter that's sadly missed by many.

 

Your last paragraph proves my point. You admit he had a good career, Infact as you say it was phenomenal compared to most fighters, the same fighters imo you are or would of expected him to face up at 175 not named RJJ.

I don't buy into the "you have to fight in US to gain recognituon" concept, I do agree that in the 80's and especially 90's this is what people thought as most of the big televised fights came from the states as did the write ups by at times very biased pro US writers luke Bert Sugar for instance.

Anyhow I'm out of this thread for now, feel as though me or we are going round in circles.

Been good Loudon.

 

At the moment, British and European boxing is booming.

There's been a real shift within the last 5-10 years.

The likes of Eddie Hearn and Sky are putting together big PPV shows that are shown around the world.

The U.K. are now staging some of the world's biggest fights.

The best fighters in the world are starting to travel.


Back in the late 90's-early 00's, America was the home of Boxing.

The majority of the world's best fighters were either American, or they were based there.

The biggest promoters in boxing were American.

The biggest TV networks were American.

The major organisations were founded in America.

The fight capital of the world is in America.

The majority of the greatest fighters of all time, were either American or were based there.

It was certainly the place to be for non U.S. based fighters, which is why every British fighter apart from Joe travelled over.

Joe simply had to travel there if he wanted to pursue the biggest available fights.

 

It's been great debating you.

I've really enjoyed it.

I don't want to disrespect you by questioning your knowledge, but I don't understand why you have an issue with what I've wrote.

It's not a concept.

Back then, non U.S. based fighters had to travel to obtain the best available fights for themselves.

That's a fact, with numerous examples available.

Again, I'm only criticising Joe based on the comments that he made on a regular basis. And if he hadn't have made them, I wouldn't have an issue.

I have never criticised Chris Eubank for not travelling to the U.S. and chasing down the best fighters within his range, because I respected his honesty when he said he was content to just defend his WBO belt in Europe.

 

ducked again eh? following your programming well.

 

Good thread guys.

 

Oh you are back, doing the exact same thing you claim other people do to you.

You have ducked, you did duck, you are a duck.

As I've already said I'm taking a leave from the thread but it's been a pleasure talking BOXING with people who actually like to talk BOXING, unlike YOU.

Loudon, Lance etc I may not agree with but they have good arguments....you on the other hand are a parasite on the forum.

Again don't bother replying as you bring nothing.