re watching floyd vs canelo

In Round 2 Canelo landed two impressive clean left hooks, one of them was with 1:20 left in the round. The other one was with 0:15 seconds left in the round. Both times Floyd's back was facing the camera so it was hard to see, but both of those were big punches and got big crowd reactions. The best punches Floyd landed in Round 2 were those two hard jabs with 50-45 seconds left. Canelo landed a counter jab (face, body) combo with 2:00 left in the round.

In the final 30-40 seconds of the round, Floyd missed a lot of jabs, Canelo was slipping many of them.

I had Round 1 for Floyd, I agree Floyd's jabs to the face through the guard were better than Canelo's jabs to the body. Round 2 was much harder to score than Round 1, I had it close but clear for Canelo. BTW You agree with CJ Ross for Round 2. She scored Round 2 for Floyd. Moretti also scored that round for Floyd, but the judge that scored it 117-111 (Metcalfe) scored Round 2 to Canelo. That judge may have had a better angle for those hooks. If you’re not sure if those hooks landed, I suggest watching Round 2 from a different camera angle, from a fan cam inside the arena on youtube, and you get a better view of those left hooks from Canelo in round 2.

Canelo also was very active in Round 2. Some of Canelo’s jabs and rights landed on Floyd’s arms, but down the stretch of the round (After those two good jabs from Floyd with 50-45 seconds left) Floyd missed with a lot of his jabs, Canelo was slipping them, and then the left hook with 15 seconds left. It’s a hard round to give to Floyd just based on those two jabs. They were nice, but not as good as those two hooks imho and Canelo also had those impressive counter jabs with 2 minutes left in the round.

I mean if you want to make an argument that Floyd won the 2nd, you can make that argument, but you can’t ignore those big left hooks and the fact that it was clearly a very close round.

 

Impressive hooks? You mean a left hook that was slapping and literally did nothing at all. Btw they showed the hook landing in slo-mo after the round. HAHA impressive hooks.

Round 2 was more clear Floyd than round 1. You literally have to ignore everything Floyd did in the first 2:30 and credit Canelo for the slapping hook he landed which was not effective at all to give him that round.

 

Have to say, Shadow is pumping out an impressive output here. He's pretty convincing when he puts his mind to it.

 

How do you rate the two counter jabs by Canelo with exactly 2:00 left in the round? How often do you see Floyd countered with two hard jabs (face, body) like that?

As far as the two hooks, the one with 15 seconds left did get a nice crowd reaction. It wasn't that hard, but it was completely unblocked landed right on Floyd's cheek. The left hook earlier in the round (with 1:20 left) had more force, it cracked Floyd right on the chin.

I'm not ignoring the first 2:30 in the round, Canelo was feinting Floyd throughout the round and getting him to flinch, Canelo was throwing jabs, like the one with 2:43 left. (that one appeared to be partially blocked by Floyd but may have gotten through, hard to see from the Camera) With 2:18 left, Canelo slipped / parries a Floyd jab and counters with a jab. With 2:13 Floyd landed a hard jab through the guard. Canelo gets in a jab to the body at 2:02, then Floyd gets in a light jab, and Canelo counters with the two jabs as I mentioned earlier.

I'll give Floyd that he had 3 good jabs in the round. A lot of Floyd's jabs were missing or skillfully blocked or parried by Canelo. Like the Floyd jab with 1:55 left, that did not land, Canelo countered with a arm punch and a body punch. I'm not ignoring anything in this round, both men landed some good punches, but you can't ignore how well Canelo finished the, round, how many jabs Floyd missed down the stretch, and just the ring generalship from Canelo with all the feints getting Floyd to flinch. Round 2 was a good round for Canelo.

 

Most people are fan of entertaiment.not fan of boxing. I find easy to understand why people choose MAYMAC. and you should too(don't think like a hardcore boxing fan) think like majority of the people.who only know Floyd,Conor and maybe Pac.

 

The 4 categories of scoring boxing are : Clean Punching, Defense, Effective Aggression, Ring Generalship.

It's not just clean punching. In rounds where Clean Punching is even, you have to look at defense, effective aggression, and ring generalship. In Round 2, for example, both men had 3 moments where they really landed good quality punches. It comes down to personal preference what you liked better : Floyd's 3 hard jabs that got through the guard or Canelo's two clean left hooks and the two counter jabs with 2 minute left in the round. That category is very debatable.

But what’s not debatable is ring generalship in that round. Canelo clearly won that category with a ridiculous number of successful feints in the round. Floyd ended up losing his balance at one point. When the clean punching is that even in a round, ring generalship has to be considered, even if a fighter didn’t follow the feints up directly with clean punches.

Then you need to also consider defense and effective aggression. Canelo had the better defense in the round, because he didn’t allow himself to be hit with clean left hooks unblocked like Floyd did, Floyd missed with a lot of jabs that Canelo blocked, parried or slipped. So defense is a slight win for Canelo. And effective aggression, well Floyd was on his back foot for most of the round, in Round 2 Canelo was making Floyd fight his fight. All Floyd could land in Round 2 was an occasional jab through the guard. Canelo had much better rhythm and variety on his punching throughout the fight, and especially in round 2.

You gotta look at it round by round. In Round 1, Canelo’s feinting didn’t win him the round because Floyd clearly landed the better clean punches. But in a round like Round 2, when both men landed multiple good clean punches and that category is debatable, ring generalship matters. And making someone flinch that many times and being the aggressor in a round that even can make all the difference. How someone finishes the round is also very important. Canelo just had a lot going for him in round 2.

 

< Ellerbe

 

I do hope Canelo does this with GGG...he will be the one losing his balance...on the end of a GGG slammer

 

Will they hand it to him in the ring or let it follow the stretcher ?

 

Re-watched that round, and Canelo only appeared to land one clean jab, and one lead left hook. In response, Mayweather consistently landed the jab downstairs, and split the guard on several occasions with the jab to the head. Plus, Mayweather landed a couple of cuffing hooks that in reality weren't that much less effective than that lead left hook from Canelo (both fighters were looking off pretty much every power shot thrown at that point), and a clean lead right at the bell. In general, the clean, consistent jab to the body and those that landed upstairs bagged the round for Floyd.

Clean punching: Floyd
Defense: Floyd
Effective aggression: Floyd, who generally initiated most of the action and was effective with it. Plus, he was backing Canelo up toward the end of the round.
Ring Generalship: Canelo's feinting helped him and he did make Mayweather reset a few times. But even if you ignore the fact that Mayweather successfully feinted in turn and was still having a look at a guy who seemed intent on playing the waiting game instead of attacking, the edge in ring generalship that Canelo would have wouldn't offset the edge that Mayweather had in the other categories.

 

Sure I'll play along and rewatch/score the fight, but I'm sure my own internal confirmation bias will lead me to the same score as when I scored it live, 8-4

 

Can you be specific? Mayweather landed 3 good solid jabs through the guard, one with 2:13 left, one with 0:49 left, and one with 0:47 left. The latter two were with more force. The first one seemed to surprise Canelo but didn’t seem that hard. Floyd threw a lot of jabs in this round, and he landed those 3, but he also missed a lot of jabs that were blocked or Canelo avoided, especially in the last 40 seconds of the round. It wasn’t just one jab, it was a series of jabs that missed by Floyd. It wasn’t a consistent peppering jab from Floyd. Canelo was doing well to block or avoid most of them.

Where are those cuffing hooks? Cite the time left in the round and we can compare them to Canelo’s landed hooks.

Take a closer look at this, frame by frame. It appears that Canelo actually avoided this punch, he saw the punch coming and he stepped back to avoid it and countered with a left hook right uppercut combo. Floyd went in for a clinch and held Canelo so the left hook counter from Canelo hit Floyd’s back as Floyd was ducking into a clinch. Canelo appeared to land a right uppercut as Floyd was trying to clinch.

We don’t have a good angle to see whether that Canelo right uppercut landed, or whether Canelo avoided the straight right hand from Floyd. It’s hard to tell whether Canelo avoided it because he was pulling his head back to avoid the punch. It appears to me like that right hand from Floyd Canelo narrowly avoided by stepping back, we don’t have a good enough camera angle to be sure of if that punch landed.

Also of note was the series of punches Canelo landed with 15 seconds left in the round got a good crowd response. Floyd threw a lunging left hook with 6 seconds left in the round, Canelo blocked it and ducked under it, Floyd then whiffed with a right hook that Canelo also avoided.

I didn’t see a consistent jab to the body from Floyd. He was throwing an occasional jab to the body, but throughout the fight Canelo landed a jab to the body much more consistently than Floyd. Floyd utilized the jab to the face more consistency than Canelo. This round was no exception, occasionally Floyd would land a jab through the guard, the vast majority of his jabs were blocked or avoided by Canelo. Likewise, Floyd was avoiding or blocking most of Canelo’s jabs to the face, but some were getting through.

To be clear, Floyd landed the better, harder jabs to the face over the course of the fight. And Canelo did land some good jabs to the face, just not as many as Floyd. In round 2 specifically, you have to weigh Floyd’s 3 hard landed jabs to the face vs the left hooks from Canelo, his ring generalship, jabs to the body, the blocking of most of Floyd's jabs, making Floyd miss jabs in the last 40 seconds, and the counter jabs by Canelo with 2 minutes left in the round.

It’s very debatable if you thought those 3 jabs won Floyd the round. At the same time there are also reasons why you can give Canelo that round. I think we can both agree that Round 2 is a swing round and round that could be argued either way. That said, Canelo won the ring generalship category more clearly than Floyd won any of the other categories.

Mayweather didn’t successfully feint as much as Canelo in Round 2. In Round 2, Canelo had about 13 or 14 successful feints, causing Floyd to flinch each time. Mayweather only feinted about 1 or 2 times and one of them wasn’t successful.

In Round 2 specifically, Canelo was successfully feinting Floyd successfully, that’s why you can say he clearly won that category. Canelo had more successful feints in this round than any round in the bout.

 

Canelo was missing a lot of punches on purpose. Fixed fight. That was the bait he had to take to earn the spot of the next PPV boxing star.

 

Jab to the body lands clean at 1:51, then he goes upstairs and splits the guard with another jab at 1:49 (that one doesn't seem to land as clean as the body shot, but does seem to make contact). Mayweather gets another jab in at 1:40 left in the round. Another jab to the body at 1:03 left in the round. Body jab forces Canelo to back away with 40 seconds left in the round.

Cuffing one two from Floyd on the inside at 1:19 left in the round. He hooks at Canelo with 58 seconds left and seems to make partial contact.

Canelo definitely took something of the shot, but it still appears to land when I watch it frame by frame. Floyd clinches, and the positioning of his glove and where he is in the clinch indicates that he likely smothered the uppercut that Canelo was trying to throw.

Well, it's a pro-Caenelo crowd, so they were going to cheer any time he appeared to have success. That said, he did land his best shot of the round at that point. Floyd saw it at the last moment and used head movement to take something off it, though.

Floyd then responds by feinting and maneuvering Canelo toward the ropes; throws the left hook that's blocked and then throws the right hook to the body that connects to the flank, eliciting a slight grin from Canelo as he backs away. Then the right hand and clinch caps the round.

The only jab that Canelo appeared to land in that round was at the beginning of the frame. A lot of his jabs upstairs were slipped and a lot of jabs downstairs were blocked by the left arm as a result of the half-shell D that Floyd was using.

Basically, round 2 was about a half dozen of Floyd jabs and a couple of power punches versus one clean hook from Canelo, and a stiff jab to open the round, plus a couple of nice feints. Competitive, but I think I'll take the more tangible work when scoring the frame.

Pity Canelo didn't land anything clean save the hook. And any thought of that being enough to swing the round was erased when Floyd had that nice flourish in the last ten seconds.

Canelo had his moments in this fight and made it competitive. I just thought Floyd had more success throughout the frame.

Mayweather definitely maneuvered him toward the ropes at the end of the frame without throwing any punches. Sometimes the best feints are the ones that aren't so easily apparent. Also, keep in mind that Floyd will occasionally seem to bite on a feint to see how his opponent will follow up, especially in the early stages of the fight.

Which brings us back to my original point. Feints are great, but they don't win you the round if you can't follow up on them successfully, and Canelo didn't do so often enough in round 2 for me to give him the round.

 

Can you comment on the counter jab to the head Canelo landed with 2:00 left. Floyd was starting to move away but it still had some pop on it. You rarely see Floyd hit with a counter jab like that, and Canelo followed that up with a jab to the body. The jab to the body was mostly blocked, it sort of was in between Floyd's gloves, but that counter jab by Canelo was one of the better punches in the round do you agree?

Just look at the whole sequence from 2:02 - 1:52 left. Canelo jab to the body at 2:02, Floyd lands a light jab at 2:00, Canelo quickly counters with a hard jab of his own that Floyd couldn't avoid, then a body jab that’s partly blocked. Then Canelo blocks and slips a Floyd jab at 1:56, Canelo counters with a left hook to the chest that is blocked by Floyd’s gloves, but then Canelo follows that up with a straight right hand to the body that lands near the belt-line 1:55 left. If you pause it, it may look like it hit the belt-line, but when it lands it’s just above the belt-line. Floyd moving away made it look like it hit the belt-line, looks to me like a clean hard body shot by Canelo, possibly the hardest body shot in the round. It backed Floyd up and he had to reset.

Then we get to 1:51 like you said. Floyd did appear to land a jab to the body, but we don’t have a good enough angle to see how much of it was blocked. Canelo was moving away as it landed. The hard jab that followed by Floyd at 1:49 Canelo evaded for the most part. We do have a good angle for that jab with 1:49 left, but it’s still hard to tell if it actually landed. I honestly can’t tell if that jab actually hit Canelo. It was so close to hitting him, but I’m not sure it actually did. If it did, then it only just grazed him as Canelo took 99.9% of the power of the punch off of it by moving away from the punch. I can’t count that as a solid jab or one of the best punches of the round like the other 3 with Canelo evading it to that degree.

Observe that Canelo got in another hard right hand to the body just above the belt-line with 1:44 left that sent Floyd crashing into the ropes. (Canelo set that up with a left hook to the chest blocked by Floyd) Floyd did land a nice jab with 1:40 left. Then Floyd ducked the counter and clinched.

At 1:21 Canelo lands a jab to the chest area in between Floyd’s guard. This punch was created by the repeated feints that Canelo did moments before. (so this is an example of a clean punch landed by Canelo as a result of a successful feint) Then Canelo follows that up with the left hook to the chin of Floyd with 1:20 left. Then Floyd countered with an inside straight right from short distance that landed and a left hook from Floyd that appears to miss. That’s your “cuffing” one two. That left hook did not appear to land. The straight right from close range landed, yes, but not the left hook that followed. You can't compare that missed inside left hook by Floyd to any of Canelo's landed left hooks in the round. I don't see where Floyd landed any clean hooks in this round, you suggested there were, so please cite any other hooks that you saw Floyd landing this round.

Take note that Canelo was giving Floyd some head movement causing Floyd missed a jab short with 1:13 left. This is an example of Canelo displaying defensive skills to slip punches.

The Floyd jab to the body with 1:03 left that you mentioned, didn’t actually land. Take a look at it frame by frame and pay attention to floyd’s glove and arm. It doesn’t have the look of a punch that ever connected with Canelo’s body. It may have grazed his belt-line. It was aimed just above the belt-line but Canelo was moving away from it. Floyd's body language when throwing that punch indicates it came up short, and to support this, I found a video that you can see this jab to the body by Floyd with 1:03 left from another angle so you can see that Canelo actually avoided it completely. (18:45-18:47 in this video, after Floyd ducks a Canelo jab, then Canelo avoids the Floyd jab to the body that happened with 1:03 left in the round)

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As you can see, Canelo avoids that jab from Floyd and evades another of Floyd’s jab right after that. (It was hard to tell if that Floyd jab to the body landed from the broadcast camera but it's clear as day on this fan cam that it missed)

This fan cam’s video of the fight is very useful, it's missing some segments of the bout, but has most of the fight and some very useful camera angles that allowed me to see punches that I couldn't tell if they landed from the broadcast. This Floyd jab to the body is a great example of a punch that look like it lands from the telecast but from this other another angle you can clearly see that it misses.