Do you guys really believe Ali is goat

His level of competition rose sharply in the 1970's.

 

It did, at least when it comes to his toughest opponents (i.e. Frazier, Norton, Foreman). But if you take the mid 1960s verison of him, the guy who beat Sonny Liston, and put him in against 1971 Frazier or 1973 Norton, you don't think a pre-1967 version of himself would have had an easier time defeating those guys?

I mean just take the fight he had with Bonavena before he fought Frazier. He went life and death with Bonavena. It took him 15 rounds to finally get rid of Oscar. He was still shaking off heavy ring rust in that fight and going into the first Frazier fight. The Cassius Clay that fought Liston in the first fight would have toyed with Bonavena and got him out of there early. The Ali that fought Frazier in the first fight was a completely different fighter than the Ali we knew from the 1960s. He had slowed down in his 3 years away from the ring. He still had enough to go 15 rounds with Frazier which was impressive, but he obviously wasn't the same unhittable physical specimen that he was when he fought Liston.

 

I meant to say older, obviously. Which supports my point about the age by age obviously.

 

And my point was that the age by age comparison is more relevent as a comparison between Ali and Roy than it is between them and Tarver, who started his pro career much later in life.

 

Liston was on his last legs. Yes the photo is iconic, but doesn't change that the fact that Liston had one foot in the grave boxing wise.

Ali's not an invincible force. Joe Frazier absolutely and completely shattered that notion.

 

No.

 

I agree, Ali was better in the 70's. It was his level of competitive in the 60's that was so poor.

 

He's not even the best HW. I rate louis better than him.

 

His 60's opposition was definitely lacking, for lack of a better word.

 

I think It's irrelevant in any of those cases, but fair enough.

 

Ali from 60s would've made rather easy work of Fraizer and Norton, but 74 Foreman could've annihilated that version of him.

 

Plausible post. Ali has pros and cons to both his pre and post exile versions of himself. It's an annoyance of mine when people act like Ali was invincible. Joe Frazier whooped that ass. And Ali was 29. That's just flat out not old. He was 29 ****ing years old.

That's just not old. It isn't.

 

I think Frazier would of KO'ed the 60s Ali, he did not take punishment as well in the 60's.

 

He was also far harder to put punishment on. Fraizer would've got hit with at least 3 punches before he landed one.

 

Ali had a tough time with Mildenberger who was not very good, Frazier would of gave him hell, and I think would of stopped him.