Prime Muhammed Ali vs Prime Jim jeffries

If you're a big Jeffries fan, as well as a reader, I'd very strongly recommend this site if looking for some great contemporary info on Jeffries (and others of his time):

http://www.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/eagle

Just type in Jim Jeffries in the search box & you get a ton of contemporary articles from his time.

 

Never seen anything but positive reviews of Pollack's books.:good

 

Now that's funny!

There you go again, taking things out of context, and while at the same time pretending you are somehow holding a winning hand. To make things even better you often forget what you say, then play double standards to make your points. Classic stuff! You most certainly amuse me Tony! Outlast me on this board you say? I suppose you think you will live to 105. Then again you claimed you had an IQ of 137.

Just to clarify, I did not say any of the below. Other people did, and there source report it. I merely posted the data here. You cringe from any source that does not paint Johnson in a glowing light.

Now to address the below:

“I remember you stating Burns had jaundice when he fought Johnson. “

This is mentioned by the Burns book which was posted here. It states those at ringside said he looked yellow and weak. I have already told you many times that the foremost historian on early black prize fighters, Mr. Kevin Smith says there is evidence that Burns, who stood 5’7” and weighed in at a low weight of 168 pounds was suffering from a jaundice. Should I take his 20+ years of hard core research here, or your wanton infatuation?


“ That Burns broke Johnson's ribs. “


This was reported in the Burns book, and I believe by Larry Cap Roberts. Once again, I have posted their comments here. Posting another person's / news report work is not a lie, so end your bigotry! If you disagree, prove them wrong, not I.


“ The Johnson v Battling Johnson fight was scheduled for 20 rds. “

Once again, I have two sources that say this. The well researched Cyber Boxing zone, and Unforgivable Blackness, which is perhaps the best Jack Johnson book on the shelf. Other sources say 10 rounds. Even if it was 10 rounds, based on fight reports I posted here, Jim Battling should have been the winner. That’s good enough for me.


“ Sam Langford knocked Johnson down.”

Once again, this is the French press who reported this after interviewing Jack Johnson who was fighting in France. Is that primary enough for you Such a glaring error would have been quickly contradicted by Johnson or his managers/promoters if it were false. Many fight reports if you read them can miss knockdowns. I’m not sure if Johnson was down or not vs. the 20 year old 156 pound Langford. Johnson said Sam was even lighter. We also have Johnson on quote saying the little smoke was too dangerous. Indeed, as champion Johnson avoided the best out there like the bubonic plague, got floored by super middles, out boxed according to primary news reports by another super middle, and suffered a dubious draw vs. Jim Battling, who’s record resembles that of a journeyman’s.


I think I’ll save this post in case you forget again.

 

jeffries looks like jeff lacy in this fight.

only way jeffries has a chance is if he used some knowledge of a 1900s rule that Ali wasnt too aware of. If there were any obscure rules around at that time that he could use to trick Ali, such as bending a knee really low to let the ref think he was down and getting Ali disqualified for hitting him in that position.

 

Prime for prime I think Ali beats Jeffries over 15 rounds, but not in a relative wipeout like some in this thread are saying. This wouldn't be the older, slower, pressed for time to get in shape Jeffries after a six year layoff fighting Ali. I do think it would be a contest in the manner of how Ali fought George Chuvalo, and he took a beating against George. Don't forget that. Yes, Ali was able to pound the faces of many of his opponents and bust them up with his chopping shots, Chuvalo, Liston, Quarry, Frazier and you could say Foreman too. Jeffries would get busted up, pretty badly at that. However, I wouldn't put it past a prime Jeffries to catch Ali with solid shots to the body and head in this matchup. He'd would land shots on Ali just to give him enough of a threat and wakeup call that the greatest would be in a fight.

I don't at all believe the stuff that's going on here suggesting a prime Jeffries wouldn't be able to land on Ali. That's just plain dumb. BTW old Bob Fitz was a helluva fighter who'd give all the heavies a rough and tough night, just like Greb.

 

Jeffries had a year and a half to get in shape for Johnson .
Jeffries was down to weight after he came back from Carlsbad. How much more time do you think he needed?

 

You posted extracts from a book on Tommy Burns by Dan McCaffery it is the biggest pile of crap ever written on a boxer. I found a dozen mistakes in the couple of paragraphs you posted.McCaffery is a pal of Larry Cap Roberts another inept 3rd class hack, neither of them know ****. Kevin Smith has NEVER stated Burns had jaundice.When I email him I doubt he will be pleased by you repeating this.

You have things arse about face as usual, it is down to you to provide proof when you make statements, not me to disprove them . YOU HAVE NEVER PROVIDED A PRIMARY SOURCE TO BACK UP ANY STATEMENT YOU HAVE MADE ON THIS FORUM.
Unforgivable Blackness does NOT state the Johnson/ Johnson, was scheduled for 20 rds at all I've told you this several times ,yet you keep repeating it.

"Both were counter punchers,,and Battling Jim seemed especially wary.In the third the champion launched an attack that had the younger man reeling.Then for no apparent reason he pulled back.
There were cries of fake!
Some customers called for their money back.
In fact the champion had fractured his left forearm slamming the challenger's head and had to fight the next seven rounds with just one hand,clinching whenever he could.
At the end , it was the younger man who was breathing hard.The crowd unaware of Johnson's injury hissed both men" . Unforgivable Blackness.

Several posters have posted newpapers announcing the Johnson /Battling Jim fight ,including Boxing News, Le Figaro ,prominent in the head lines are the words TEN ROUNDS,enough of the ****.

Cyber Zone has the fight as D10 with no other comment it also has the Langford fight as Johnson knocked Langford down twice, no mention of Johnson being floored .

Johnson could have corrected the Langford asssertion? He did, he wrote an article in the Ring magazine it was two pages refuting this lie, and naming several witnesses that would corroborate Johnson's statement. He also stated in his real auto biography " In The Ring And Out"."If Mr Langford really said that he floored me I must have hit him harder than I thought, because no such action took place."Truth is I had no trouble with him and eased up on him". Ringside accounts of the fight have been posted that prove Johnson is right on this .

Nat Fleischer interviewed Sam Woodman , Langford's manager regarding his claim that claim that Langford floored Johnson .Woodman admitted it was a lie, "you got me Nat it didnt happen, I was just trying to build up interest in a return fight." Sam Woodman in an interview with the Ring.

One final point , please dont refer to me by my chrisitan name, we are not friends and never will be. Use my user name in future.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but he was near 300 lbs roughly six months before the fight and wasn't looking in good shape for Johnson.

Still, I'm not totally sold on this matchup being a wipeout. I'll give respect to the champion that Jeffries was and considering the length of the fights in his time, he should get props conditioning.

 

What about young Mike Tyson vs Jim Jefferies

 

Are you talking about Bob Fitzsimmons

 

Your wrong he was 226lbs when he came back from Carlsbad over 7 months before their fight!

 

Jim Corbett 33 years old 188lbs coming out of a year and a half's retirement , not having won a fight in 6 and a half years was in front after 23 rds against Jeffries.
Corbett couldn't hit as hard as Ali.
Corbett couldn't take it as well as Ali.
Corbett was not as fast of foot as Ali.
Corbett's reach was 73".
Ali's was 78".
Corbett was 6' 1".
Ali was 6'3".
Corbett was 188lbs.
Ali 212lbs.
Substitute the Ali of the Williams fight for Corbett.
Now ask yourself who wins?

 

Jeffries was not himself in his prime at the time of the first Corbett fight.

He got much better subsequently.

 

In answer to the thread question, my pick is it doesn't go 40, 20 or even 15. Ali wins rsc Rd 14. Ali ahead by 8 round s to 5 at times of stoppage. Jeffries down twice in 14.