Rocky Marciano vs. Sonny Liston

Lots of murkiness.. sounds like we should give him a pass then?

We should give Sonny a pass for quitting.

We should give Liston a pass because he got his jaw broke by a guy 30 pounds lighter. We should give Liston a pass because Leotis Martin was a noted puncher...

We should give Liston a pass because he was over the hill and much older than anyone can imagine when he fought Clay.

Nobody is giving Marciano a pass for beating a contender the same size as Liston because mcvey thinks it's relevant that Sonny had larger calf measurements.

Sonny was an excellent force in the heavyweight division. He proved it by doing a number on Patterson twice. He was good enough not to need excuses made for him years later.

 

Why do you keep repeating this bullsh*t? .I corrected you on the other Marciano thread now you've posted it again!


Radrook said: ↑
If Moore was so shopworn when he fought Marciano, then how did he manage to win 35 more fights after losing to Marciano? Many of them were by KO and TKO. In fact, after Marciano, Moore went on to win the LH title from Tony Anthony in 1957 via KO. Then after losing it he won it again in 1958 by KO against Yvon Durell. He sent Durell to the canvass four times during that fight before putting him away in the eleventh. Then in the 1959 rematch he sent Durell to the canvas three times before putting him away again by K0 and retaining his LH title. Then in 1960 Moore TKOd Willi Besmanof and won the American HW title. Then in 1961 he regained his LHW title by defeating Giulio Rinaldi via TKO.

All of this after the Marciano fight.
..
Moore didnt win the LHVy title from Anthony, he defended his title against him. Anthony was never champion
The first Rinaldi fight was an over the weight 10 rds match Moore at190.25lbs Rinaldi at181.5lbs.
Moore was defending his title against him in their second fight. The second Besmanoff fight was promoted as for the American Title there was no such title and ,even if there was, Besmanoff would not have been eligible to contest it as he was born in Germany!
Moore was the champion in both the Durelle fights!

Maybe do some research?

 

I know, Lord only knows why. Maybe because you all PM each other?

Actually it was "intellectually dishonest" which I haven't quite decided is quite the same thing as flat out dishonest and would only matter if I actually were spouting untruths and fibs but I have not. Usually to be dishonest one has to be deliberately misleading. You sir, intentionally or not, are the only chap who was misleading on this thread.

I shall remind you for the tenth time that I bare no grudge that people think Liston wins this. I merely state points that suggest it would be an extremely tough fight.

I think it shows up the guys who don't like that.

 

Getting your jaw broke in the 4th round and losing a split decision isn't a badge of shame ,in fact it contradicts all the sh*t about how Liston will fold against Marciano if things get tough!Just as koing Cleveland Williams after your nose is broken illustrates courage!
Liston was
2 inches bigger in the chest than Louis.
1.5 inches bigger in chest expansion
8 inches longer in reach
2 inches bigger in the forearm
2 inches bigger in the biceps
2.75 inches bigger of fist
3.75inches bigger in the thigh
Half inch bigger in the neck
An inch bigger in the ankle
The only thing Louis has over Liston in physique is half an inch in height.
Stop with the cr*p you're fooling nobody!

 

I think you mug yourself everytime you type a post!

 

There was not much of a difference in size between Louis and Liston looking at comparable primes. Louis best prime weight was 202. Let's say Listons prime weight was 210 (could be less). We are talking less than 10 pounds. In any event size would not dictate a winner here.

 

For f*cks sake compare their measurements!
The point I am making is Choklab's dishonest post stating old Louis and Liston were comparable in size and therefore Marciano's case against Liston is enhanced is based on a palpable lie!
And this is the older, heavier Louis!
2 inches bigger in the chest than Louis.
1.5 inches bigger in chest expansion
8 inches longer in reach
2 inches bigger in the forearm
2 inches bigger in the biceps
2.75 inches bigger of fist
3.75inches bigger in the thigh
Half inch bigger in the neck
An inch bigger in the ankle

" Size wont determine this " ? And you know this because Marciano fought all those class 212lbs big punchers? Such as??????

Liston's weakness was movers he never learned to cut off the ring.Against Marciano he wouldn't have to, Marciano would be coming to him! If Liston could pick his ideal opponent it would be a little guy who came at him ,and one who cut easily! He would club Marciano down inside 8 rds!

 

Size is the last thing to look at. I've never seen any fighter manhandle Marciano. In terms of measurements which are completely meaningless you would need to compare Louis in his prime vs Liston in his prime. Louis prime weight was 202. What was Listons prime weight? Look at his bouts from say 57-59. There was not much of a difference.

 

You've never seen him in with a heavy handed class banger who scaled 212lbs have you!

Liston's prime ,according to you is 57-59 yet you and Choklab were very quick to mention his losing to Marshall in54,Ali in64&65! Martin in69!

The first loss would be pre- prime and excused because of the broken jaw anyway,the second and third losses were when he was5 and 6 years past his best against the consensus number 1all time heavyweight and
the last would be 10 years past his prime would it not?

We both know you used 59 as the cut off for Liston's prime because he was heavier in the 60's, learning tricks from Choklab?
Wonder how a 40 + Marciano would have done against Martin?

 

I am concerned that Radrooks avatar may actually be his passport photo.

 

Not at all. Liston was 30 in 1960. The best assumption is Listons physical best was pre his 30's.

 

Well according to Mcvey it's a huge difference because extraordinarily enough he calculated joe Louis "title fight average weight" as being a whole pound less than Joe Louis's ever scaled in a title fight. Imagine that!

The lowest Louis weighed was 197 in a title fight. The heaviest Louis weighed in a title fight was 218. Add the two weights together devide by two to find Joe Louis' average weight and it's 207, exactly half a pound less than what Joe scaled against abe Simon aged 27 years old in his absolute prime in 1942!

Let's look at Liston. He was what 5lb more? And visibly shorter.

 

Yes 1951 Joe Louis!

In 1951 joe Louis stopped leading contender Lee Savold. This win makes even that version of Joe Louis both "world class" and a "heavy handed banger". And when he fought Rocky Joe was even 212lb.

The Associated Press reported: "It was strictly a one-sided battle all the way as Louis snapped Savold's head back with jarring left jabs and belted him to the head and body with short rights and uppercuts"

"He put away Savold with a right to the body and as beautiful a left hook to the jaw as you will ever see."

• Savold entered the fight recognized as World Heavyweight Champion by the British Boxing Board of Control. After Louis knocked him out, the organization decided to recognize Ezzard Charles, who had decisively defeated Louis the previous year, as the Heavyweight Champion of the World.

 

Any one ever win a fight because of their thick ankles?

 

Oh, yes. The leading contender who was almost as old as Louis, who had had a patchy record even in his prime, and who had fought once in the previous two and a half years. The BBBC recognised his bout with Woodcock as being for the title because they were hoping for a British champion. After he beat Woodcock and Louis beat him, the embarrassment became too much and they dropped the whole idea.