joe was still a good fighter. Not great but good and big. The era was not that depleted. Bivins, Charles, Walcott, Baker, Valdez, Elmer Ray, Savold, lastarza, Layne, cesar brion. Walcott wasn't coming off a career best win? Don Turner explained beautifully why it was that Charles went down hill. The light heavyweight division was not really an exclusive division until the 1980s. Until then every lightheavywight champ fought Heavyweights. Mate Parlov was the first LH champ never to fight a heavyweight. And among those 100 plus fight guys please remember there were many glorified sparring sessions passed off as real fights in those days. Fighters helping each other out in order to stay injury free and busy during the lean war years.
Again you have no idea what you are talking about. Giving up the most prized trophy in all of sports,The worlds hwt championship, sitting on your stool is probably the worst black mark any hwt champion could have against their ATG status. It is the reason Liston is not considered as an ATG by most.
Lol, who does not consider Liston an ATG? Most? lol yes, this claim is laughable, and well just not true. Many rate him a top 10 ATG a majority certainly have him in their top top 15? Only fools, trolls and the uninformed don't place him top 20
Liston is primarily not rated an ATG because he gave up his world hwt championship sitting on his stool. For most historians it's a black mark that cannot be overcome.
If you ageee, then theres nothing else to talk about. Stop bringing up martin in h2h fights. Jimmy ellis wasnt a 40 year old drunk with no motivation to be champ again. Terrible example. Fighter A beating fighter B has nothing to do with fighter C. Even you know that. It doesnt matter if Ali was "knocked out", you are shifting the conversation to avoid the obvious. Do you see even the diminished Ali from Manilla who was showing early signs of parkinsons getting tagged by Spinx all night and losing a decision? Do you see the Holyfield of the first 2 Bowe fights going life and death with sherman williams and Nikolai Valuev? Do you see him getting dropped and stopped by a fat James Toney? Do you see the Tyson who nearly ripped Berbicks head off getting knocked out by C level journeyman Kevin McBride? Everyone knows the answers to those questions. And its because in each case the former champ stayed in the game too long and had embarrasing losses. Why is there an exception for Liston? Because you have an agenda, its obvious to everyone in this thread but you keep acting like youre "only presenting the facts". I dont care if you think Rocky wins but clinging to the Martin fight is pretty ridiculous. I wont bother responding if you keep up this charade.
Vitali Klistchos who fought a former cruiserweight Chris Byrd quit when he was ahead on points and just two remaining rounds left because he had an injured shoulder, That's the same reason Liston provided for his quitting. The difference is that Liston was behind in points while Klitscho was ahead. This content is protected BTW Klitscho had a 34 pound advantage over Byrd. Ali looked bigger than Liston in that fight.
Please return to telling us how knowledgable you are because when you actually attempt to demonstrate it, it's embarrassing.
Perry is making a good point here. Liston was absent from ATG lists in the 1960s. I have never seen an ATG list from the decade Sonny was active in where he made anyone's top ten. Many champions from the decade they were active in did make these ratings. Of the ATG lists I can find even in the 70s it was unusual to find Liston make an appearance in somebody's top ten. When he did it was ALWAYS behind Rocky. As the years went on and the people who remember Sonny started to die off he began to creep up the ATG ratings. So what Perry is saying is correct. The quitting eliminated Sonny from greatness for many years. a Liston reinansance long after his death from a new generation of fans who fell in love with conspiracy theories and the bad boy legacy that had offended a more conservative generation brought Sonny into favour. By the 80s there was a lot of Tyson chic going around and the idea of Liston became popular again.
This is novice thinking. Only a rank amateur would disrespect the sport with such nonsense. You can always tell the beginners by their attempts at besmirching greats of the past like Charles Liston, a small man trying to feel big by tearing down a giant.
No, he was coming off a dull 15 round decision which many ringsiders felt he deserved to lose and in which he tired badly towards the end.
Seamus was the poster who stated at least 10 times that Kovalev an untested light hwt would knockout both Dempsey and Marciano. Now that is embarrassing!!
Oh there's plenty more! 1.Is it true Marciano was dropped by a 37 years old fighter who had once retired for 4 years? A fighter who had16 losses on his record? Yes or No? 2.Is it true that fighter was so far along towards the tail end of his career he had just one more fight then retired? Yes or No? 3.Is it true the 9 men Marciano fought of 200lbs or over had a record of 111 losses between them? Yes or No? 4.Is it true Marciano was cut in 6 fights? Yes or No? 5.Is it true that Marciano was taken the distance by a fighter whose record was 11-14-2 [Willis Applegate],one who had lost his last 5 , won just 1 of his last 12 and that against a light heavyweight ?Yes or No? 6.Is it true that one of those who beat him prior to his fight with Marciano was a 7-3-2 Marty Marshall? Yes or No? 7.Is it true that Applegate was so near the end of the trail he had just 2 more fights before retiring?Yes or No? 8.Is it true that Marciano was 34-0-0 when he was matched with Applegate?Yes or No? 9.Is it true that Marciano was floored in sparring by a fighter who was flattened in 4 rds by179lbs Archie Moore? Yes or No? 10.Is it true Marciano was suspended for boxing an exhibition with his brother who fought under an assumed name? Yes or No? 11.Is it true Marciano whilst still an amateur fought a pro fight taking the money whilst boxing under an assumed name? Yes or No? See How Easy it Is?
