The actual skill level of Jim Braddock

I think so far as what fans think a great boxer should look like I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. there is "technically pleasing" boxing and then there is effectiveness. Then on top of this you have Levels.

You get more technically sound novis fighters who are just not effective beyond a level and at the same time you can get a guy who dosnt know what a jab is to beat him.

An amount of technique is required to be effective. So consequently providing a guy can land with bad technique he still has technique. Because he's landing.

And you can't knock a guy who still manages to land.

There are some technically awful fighters that still manage to be super effective. But that can always be torn down by the level that the guy fights at. Arthur Abraham was very effective but some would consider him awful from a technical stand point. Yes Ray Robinson was a better fighter than Arthur.

i that is clear. The man had grit. He could keep his head and carry out a plan.

Even if it appeared that way at times I don't think that is entirely fair thing to say. Braddock was often closing the distance enough to smother the leverage of his opponent whilst at the same time finding better footing.

Braddock threw jabs, hooks he worked openings, feinted , positioned the opponents where he wanted, he held his chin low and protected his jaw lowering his head as he punched. This all shows knowledge of fundamentals in my view.

but this was a deceptive lure. Just because he was often pawing it dosnt mean he had no power, or that was him trying to throw a real jab. The pawing can be a decoy. He worked out a way of gauging distance and repositioning himself behind all that pawing. He could change the speed and direction of a pawing jab.

And they were unusually slow blows that he should not have been able to land but He obviously had the ability to land from strange angles. He often turned his hand over and brought the elbow up like a chicken wing as he landed. It worked for him even though they looked like bad technique.

yes I have seen this. I wonder if he was just lucky or being deviou

this can be deceiving too. Unconventional fighters can often lose balance right out of range. I can never tell if this is intentional but it cannot be sheer luck that many times. Especially at the highest level.

perhaps in comparison to some styles of fighting but Braddock was distance aware and held his head in such a way that he reduced impact.

like a lot of seasoned guys he often allowed punches to land into his hair causing no real damage other than to his opponents hands landing so high on the head.

but he was never really dominated inside either, Braddock had a look about him where he could alter pace and lull the opponent into light punching exchanging. A kind of sparring partner, booth fighter kind of knack. Jimmy had a kind of neutralising effect.

he was not the best short puncher. But he knew where to place his shoulders, position himself. Knew where to use a break.

but crucially was he allowing hard punches to land?

 

Side note: God, Max Baer was crude!

 

I gotta admit watching Braddock Baer part of me feels Baer took a dive.

 

Brilliant. You captured his abilities and stylistic tendencies really well.
Klompton makes him sound like a literal street fighter, who didn't know what a jab was.
He doesn't appreciate the subtleties of smothering leverage, and deceptive luring.
And eating a punch in order to gain an advantage in distance control, leverage, timing, etc.

Braddock wasn't the kind of fighter who would try to dodge every single punch with excited reflexes.
He knew how to size up the danger of a punch, and how to work around it more efficiently, as shown in the Max Baer fight.

Here is a perfect example:
https://streamable.com/o9gn6

He steps back as the punch comes. And steps in right away to gain positioning advantage on Baer, landing a fast combo that bewilders him.
Awesome display of subtle skill and awareness.

A guy like Braddock is always working on something.
Klomtpons analysis is cringeworthy.

 

This is a perfect example of your over-the-top romanticizations of old-time heavyweight champions. Thwarting an opponent's crude, half-hearted rush, and then eventually responding with a series of slapping arm punches is not an awesome display and it does not demonstrate subtle skills.

 

Yes it does.
This is an example of your poor, negative interpretive abilities.

Its not easy to do what he did right there.
Timing the attack, and measuring the power, stepping in so he can off-balance Baer and land a flush combo.
That takes a lot of wherewithal and skill. A very impressive sequence.
It was a nicer highlight than almost anything, if not everything Ward did to Kovalev in their first match.

 

Clueless plodder, but was rated as one of the toughest opponents by arguably the greatest boxer who ever lived?

Your sum up is void of contextual awareness and basic critical thinking skills.
You make him sound like a street hobo who stumbled in and grabbed the belt. Like some cartoon.
You are describing a world class boxer as an amateur with 2 fights under his belt.

I guess Augustus' 30+ losses (worse record than Braddock) means that he was a clueless boxer?
Yeah, no.

Who to believe.... Joe Louis, or klompton?
Because they are worlds apart...

 

My interpretative abilities are just fine, and I'd be glad to have them judged against yours. Our disagreement over this clip of yours can be Exhibit A.

Evading a crude and half-hearted attack like that is very basic stuff for an experienced professional boxer. And Braddock's return fire consisted of some very unimpressive punches. If that's your standard, I'm sure that I can find 3-second clips of thousands of pro fighters providing "awesome" displays of "subtle skills" in "very impressive sequences."

 

And Ward's subtle skills are miles beyond those of Braddock. I don't get what you're trying to accomplish by bringing him into this, other than at best maybe revealing how worthless and misleading "nice highlights" can be.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.
You don't even understand what a highlight reel is.

 

I really don't know the whole scoop on Braddock except that he was an up and comer as a light heavy till he got schooled by Loughran and then slipped into obscurity till his run resulting in the Baer victory .. basically he had a terrific chin and courage, a good right hand and an assortment of skill developed over a long career .. he wasn't by any street that terrific but had some big moments .. I'd venture to say the praise by Louis was based on his toughness , absorbing a lot of big shots and hanging on much like Tyson did against Lewis ..

 

The reason it took 7 rounds for Louis to finish Braddock was because Braddock wasn't giving up range easily.
He was stopping lots of Louis' rushes with his stiff jab, counters, range control and Boxing IQ.

Louis had to fight Braddock tentatively, at range.
In fact, it's one of the slowest pace performances you will ever see Louis have in his very long career.
It was the same case with Max Baer. Coincidence? No.

Not to mention that Braddock knocked down the prime Bomber.
Guess Klompton will say he cluelessly stumbled into that one too.

If you think that you can survive 7 rounds with Louis by covering up and biting your teeth, you are lost.
Louis had SHWs doing 360's on the way to the ground with single punches. So let's be realistic about how much of Joe Louis' power you can absorb with heart and grit alone as a natural LHW.

 

I dunno. Baer's swing was pretty crude, but that was a nice little double right. The right to the body was a cursoory dig that most fighters use in close, but the right hook to the head that followed was compact and pretty sharp. It definitely forced a reset; and I like the way that Braddock slid off to the side and immediately got back into position after landing. I've seen far worse combinations used by far better fighters.

 

If it lands it's good. You can't knock landing. If you are out landing you are winning. That brief exchange demonstrates effectiveness. Without that exchange we dont know if Max's rush was half hearted or not because he was neutralised. It's easy to look half hearted after a guy has been thwarted.