How hard did Max Baer hit

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by superman1986, Aug 15, 2017.


  1. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    That's no more scientific than looking at their shots on film and open to a lot more margin for error.

    Was Shavers?

    I've read fighters that sparred with Huck claiming him to be a very hard puncher. Obviously a lot of his sparring partners are German so there isn't going to be a lot of English sources available.
     
  2. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    It's honestly just sad seeing people blatantly lie like this.
    ^Yeah, that's you claiming that you asked "several times" how Huck can improve his punching power.

    No, you just lie every single post. Like I said, we can see your previous posts dingbat.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes it is, it really really is!

    A great puncher can literally look like anything!
    Yes quite frankly.

    He was stopping guys who were ranked in the top ten, at the time.

    Either way, an ounce of technique, is worth more than a pound of power.
    Unless some heavyweight says (that was the hardest puncher I ever faced), you dont have much in the way of opponent testimony.

    Baers power is documented by multiple opponents, and sparring partners.

    At least three people said that he hit harder than Louis.
     
  4. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    You're a tiresome little gnat, aren't you?

    Which you then proceeded to "answer" by giving me a load of guff about jabbing and workrate which I didn't ask for. My question was very specific: how can Marco get more power from the shot in the video than he already appeared to. Not how can he be a more effective power puncher, or how can he improve his knockout ratio.

    I asked because I wanted to know what people thought specifically separated Huck from a historically regarded puncher like Baer. That point went over your head.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I will answer that:

    1. Results
    2. Opponent/sparring partner testimony.

    That is basically everything that you have to work with!
     
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  6. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    That's true. Still, if a fighter is launching themselves into a shot like a madman the chances are they're going to do a lot of damage.

    So was Huck. He was the first man to stop Afolabi, who had just come off a stunning upset win over then highly ranked Olympian Rakhim Chakhiev. He also stopped and dropped a couple of other guys rated in the top ten at the time, Glowacki and Arslan, though his record drops off after this.

    At any rate Huck's problem was never his power but his utter predictability. Fighters knew exactly what to expect when fighting him, and he never gave them any surprises. It's actually surprising he had the success he did in spite of the fact that he was so crude and obvious.
     
  7. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    This mentally gymnastics is nauseating. You want to know how Huck can increase his power but not how he can knock more guys out with his punches? That makes absolutely no sense. You're putting up road blocks every step of the way.

    There is absolutely no way Huck can go back in time and put more power into that punch.

    If Huck wanted more power in that right hand then he shouldn't have reached with the punch. That was a pretty shitty right hand. He also should have put his hip into it more.

    Don't know what was so dazzling about that right hand. It wasn't good.
     
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Baer certainly hit hard but the numerous filmed fights I have seen raise questions.

    Tom Heeney--Baer knocks Heeney down. Referee Dempsey screws up the count and Heeney is counted out with a short count while apparently waiting to get up.
    Paulino Uzcudun--goes 20 rounds with Baer losing.
    King Levinsky (1932)--goes 20 rounds with Baer winning.
    Max Schmeling--Baer pounds the stuffing out of Max, but the referee stops bout with Max still on his feet.
    Primo Carnera--Baer puts him down 12 times, but fight stopped with Primo on his feet.
    Jimmy Braddock--Baer loses 15 round decision.
    Joe Louis--Baer KO'd in four.
    Tommy Farr--Baer loses decision
    Ben Foord--Baer puts Foord down twice in 9th. I think Foord was counted out.
    Lou Nova (1939)--Nova stops Baer on cuts in 11.
    Tony Galento--Baer pounds a wide open Galento. Galento never down and retires after 7 rounds.
    Pat Comiskey--Baer hits Pat with Sunday punch. Pat up quickly. Baer follows up and bout ends with Comiskey on his feet but draped over ropes. Referee Dempsey wisely stops it.
    Lou Nova--Baer hits Nova with a ton of shots, drops him, but Nova survives and stops Baer.

    So in these 13 fights the record is 7-6 with 6 stoppages. Only two of these opponents took the full count and one of those, Heeney, is dubious. Okay there were cuts and other ref stoppages with other big punchers, but with Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, etc., there are also a lot more "the guy got hit and went down for the count" finishes. And Baer certainly went a lot of rounds.

    *the 1934 Levinsky KO in an exhibition is probably the most impressive punching display by Baer on film, but this was an exhibition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Uh-oh.
     
  10. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Remember what happened when a referee didn't stop the fight even though the opponent was on his feet? Frankie Campbell

    The Schmeling knockdown was brutal. The ref stopped it shortly after and Max was on his way out. Only thing holding him up was the ropes.

    You can't look at the Carnera fight and say "this guy can't hit". Never heard of a knockdown being used as an indicator that someone can't punch!
     
  11. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I didn't say "this guy can't hit"--he obviously could. On Schmeling and Carnera I just pointed out that he hit them a lot but they were still on their feet at the end.

    Baer was probably the hardest puncher of his era prior to Louis. I think he hit harder than Schmeling. But the issue is does he rate with the best all-time punchers such as Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Liston, Foreman, etc. I am only pointing out he didn't put that many down for the count on film compared to the others and tended to go a lot of rounds.

    "Campbell"

    I am not criticizing any of the referees for stopping these fights. If you noticed, I praised Dempsey for stopping the Comiskey fight when he did. And the ref who stopped the second Nova fight did the right thing also.
     
  12. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I am very feel me good. Full Member

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    No roadblocks. Just a simple question to prove or disprove a point.

    Who's suggesting that?

    So he should have held back on it? Wouldn't that have taken steam off it? What do you mean by putting his hip into it more? Dipping and twisting? Possibly. Anyway, at least you're providing actual suggestions now. Bravo.

    Here's a sequence of Baer's right hands. What would you suggest he does to improve his form?

    https://media.giphy.com/media/erQaEBlcZG3lu/giphy.gif
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I can count at least three common opponents who said that Baer hit harder than Louis.

    I submit that he was the hardest puncher of his era including Louis, with Sheppard perhaps being his only peer.
     
  14. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "I can count at least three common opponents who said that Baer hit harder than Louis."

    Who were they? I am interested.

    Here are the common opponents and results.

    Natie Brown
    Baer-----L 6
    Louis-----L 10, KO by 4

    Paulino Uzcudun
    Baer-----W 20
    Louis-----KO by 4

    King Levinsky
    Baer-----L 20, KO by 2
    Louis-----KO by 1

    Max Schmeling
    Baer-----KO by 10
    Louis-----KO 12, KO by 1

    Primo Carnera
    Baer-----KO by 11
    Louis-----KO by 6

    Jimmy Braddock
    Baer-----W 15
    Louis-----KO by 8

    Tommy Farr
    Baer-----W 12, L 15
    Louis-----L 15

    Lou Nova
    Baer-----KO 11, KO 8
    Louis-----KO by 6

    Tony Galento
    Baer-----KO by 8
    Louis-----KO by 4

    totals
    Baer----7 wins, 5 losses, 4 KO's
    Louis----10 wins, 1 loss, 8 KO's

    so Baer scored 4 KO's in 12 fights (counting the exhibition with Levinsky as a fight)
    Louis scored 8 KO's in 11 fights. Baer doesn't stop anyone who wasn't also stopped by Louis.

    Now as to the testimony that Baer hit harder, a fighter can only testify to who hit him harder, not to who hit harder generally. These are different things.

    Of this group, Farr I think can reasonably state that Baer hit him harder as Baer knocked him down and Louis didn't. I read Schmeling's autobiography and he certainly passed on claiming Baer hit him harder than Louis. His main reaction to the Baer fight was to wonder how he could have lost it and performed so poorly. Nova saying Baer hit harder would just be silly considering the results. To a large extent the same would be true of Galento off the films. Uzcudun? Would make no sense. Levinsky certainly was hit hard by Baer but if he thought Louis didn't hit as hard I might wonder if he lasted long enough to really get Louis' best shots.

    So I am interested in who are the three.

    And if Baer is judged the "harder" puncher, what in the real world does that mean? He clearly was not as capable of scoring knockouts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  15. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I didn't once say to hold back. I specifically stated he shouldn't have reached with the punch.

    The majority of those were actually pretty good punches. He's trying to get the maximum power he can off of them. Not try and "hit and not get hit" which is the objective of traditional boxing technique.