Why is Dempsey vs Firpo highly edited film?

The thing is, I don't think those rules account for the actions of spectators, journalists, security, and camera men.
Do they?

Perhaps it's intended for seconds?

 

What?

Did Hopkins get DQ'd when the camera guy tried helping him up?

This content is protected

I'm hoping you have something of value to add, but considering its you, I'm not holding my breath.

 

No need for personal insults. Apologies for my brevity but it just seems quaint that the no assistance rule be imagined to apply only to seconds as if receiving assistance by others would not make it equally as unfair.

As for your Hopkins example, Hopkins wasn't helped back into the ring. In fact, Hopkins never attempted to get back into the ring. Another difference is that Dempsey is quoted as requesting that those near him help him back into the ring because he was temporarily unable to do so on his own. A fighter isn't supposed to make such a request.

The impact of that fall was such that Dempsey suffered for the rest of his life from the hip injury.

BTW
If Hopkins had indeed been assisted in any way to get back into the ring then the case for disqualification would have been a legitimate one since the rule applies to everyone in attendance and not merely to his seconds. Especically if there were evidence that Hopkins requested assistance as it is said that Dempsey did.

 

I always felt Firpo connected but then kind of pushed Dempsey out with the follow through.

Some fight.

 

Okay, you came through with a substantive response.
Good points.

And yes, a purist might contend that Hopkins deserved to be disqualified.
But realistically, it would be a harsh outcome given the chaotic nature of the event.

In Dempseys case, I'm not sure what he said to those around him.
But I wouldn't give it much weight because he is a fighter in the heat of battle running on instincts.
And reacting to falling out of the ring is not something boxers exactly prepare for.
I can see him, or any other boxer for that matter, looking for a hand in that situation, not thinking about the ramifications.

If Dempseys corner men ran over and helped him up into the ring, then I would see more of a point here.
Because in that case it's more mediated, intentional, and less a result of chaos.

 

Dempsey got knocked out by Luis Firpo. He wouldn't be able to compete today. He got lucky in a terrible era of heavyweights.

There I said it. Is that what you want?

 

I just find it hard to believe that if it had been Firpo knocked out of the ring in Argentina and Argentines had helped him to get back into the ring, that such blatant assistance would have been taken so lightly by American fans if it had been Dempsey who had lost.

 

Did Argentinean fans get angry that Dempsey was helped back into the ring?

 

A very plausible outlook.
Especially if Firpo had won the fight.
Which I think he never would've.
Good perspective to keep in mind though.

 

This would help us test Rooks assumption.
Perhaps there are Argentinian Newspaper archives out there?

 

This is an Argentine article in Spanish which calls it the robbery of the century and provides a far different description of what actually happened than the English articles do.

 

I think its best that we establish how hurt Dempsey was. I mean, how can a guy who can't even get into the ring on his own survive the rest of the rd with a 6'4 brawler whose nickname is the "Wild Bull of the Pampas" and wants to take his head off?

Here's Dempsey entering the ring at the before the fight
https://streamable.com/dwuz0

Here's Dempsey entering the ring after being knocked out of it
https://streamable.com/i7tng

To me he looks cautious but no taking longer due to being hurt.

What are your thoughts?

 

Great find!
Had you already seen this prior to this thread?

Here is the translated text:

Dempsey was out of the ring by a blow of Firpo between 16 and 20 seconds, and still gave him won the fight.
It is said was the hardest, wild and dramatic fight in boxing history.

On September 14, 1923, to 85000 spectators (others say 100000) at the Polo Ground completo Stadium of New York faced heavyweight boxing world title holder of the title, "The Manassa Matador", the American Jack Dempsey, and in other r incon, Challenger, juninense, after that bout dubbed "El Toro Salvaje de las Pampas", 1, 90 m and 98,290 kilograms, Argentinian Luis Ángel Firpo. "
Jack Demsey was the champion of the time, for some perhaps the best equipped of all time. He was coming off two multi-million dollar battles with Gene Tunney.

He had gone only to the United States with the aim of reaching the world title and he had made a great campaign with 8 wins out of combat winning Bill Brennan and former champion Jesse Willard, the "Cowboy Gigante", by K.O. in the eighth round. "
A right hook, the Argentine, toppled head to the American public, outside of the ring.
Incredibly a jury about who fell Demsey, together with people from the public, helped it back up, having spent double the normal time of account. He had officially lost the title but the referee did that nothing happened!
(It seems this journalist doesn't know about the 20 second rule?)

Testimony shows the ferocity of combat:

"Me was in the second row of seats for journalists and directly behind the timekeeper, when Firpo applied his formidable right and the champion came flying head toward us. Not having mediated the intervention of the timekeeper and some journalists, Dempsey had given with the head on the ground. But some reporters and the timekeeper cushioned his fall and quickly spare, Dempsey returned by itself to the ring. Several drops of blood fell upon my cuartillas "."
Dempsey used not to fight dirty, but we see that it relied to fight someone injured and did not have the courage to the Argentine.
Both did, but above all the American already ringing the gong of the first round hit 4 or 5 times in the neck to Firpo. Of course the referee nor said anything.
Despite the fall of Dempsey out of the ring, Firpo falls nine times! (7 in first round, 2 in second and last), possibly by his left arm pain, and of course because Dempsey, theft or not, was the best in the world.