Why Mike Tyson at his best beats prime Ali

For your million dollar question:

Power doesn't necessarily translate to opponents, meaning a guy could be knocked out by a light puncher and go the distance with a feared puncher.

So how would 210lb Ali hurt a 218lb Tyson?
Same way he hurt and knocked out 224lb Foreman. Weather the storm, impose his will, make it his fight, and land precision punches.

8lbs isn't much for heavyweights, so get real with that.

I don't disagree and could also make an argument for Tyson against Ali; there are several key reasons Tyson would trouble Ali and possibly win.

I can't agree with your logic, but do agree that Tyson shouldn't be written off here at all. He has a great chance in my opinion.

 

Don't know anything about ninjas or turtles but I don't know now you are a kid.

 

Do know you are a kid. Just saying Tyson would cut through Jones and Cooper doesn't make it true. Watch, I will do it also. Charlie "Devil" Green would lay Tyson out with body punches in 3 rounds. Well, it's been said, now it is a historical fact, much like your hysterical ones

 

The guy is consistent , i will give him that, been booted twice in a week as you can spot him a mile away, Superman86 then Kingman 2 days later, now he is here for round 3.
Only a matter of time before he floods the forum with thread after thread and throws in Deontay Wilder somewhere along the line.

 

You weren't really paying attention, were you? Bruno and Shavers hit much harder than Ali, but Ali's speed accuracy and timing made him a much, much more effective puncher than anyone of them.

Ali's punches got the respect of opponents with iron chins. I think they'd get Tyson's respect as well. Especially when he slowed down after 3-4 rds. If Ali is still fresh and rattling off jabs and combos by then he could be a long evening for Mike.

But then Tyson could also KO Ali early, or at least hurt Ali enough to put him in survival mode. I wouldn't put that beyond the realm of possibility, but I think it unlikely.

Tyson could also catch Ali with a single punch mid-rounds and finish him off. Not impossible, but perhaps not likely either.

 

Yet Ali knocked out tough Channing Bonevena, Foreman and Frazier. Ali was the only man to stop Bonevena and Foreman. Only Foreman was able to stop Frazier aside from Ali. Tyson would get stopped via an accumulation of blows. Cut up and with eyes swollen in a one sided fight he would be a human punching bag after round five.

 

This is why we gamble on fights.

And that's what Ali had---finishing ability. When he got a guy ready to go, they went.

Ali would have him beat before the fight started with his antics and making fun of Tyson and his appearance/teeth/background/squeeky voice and so on. It was all personal attacks & Muhammad would only be a nice guy after the fight. but not before it. Anybody around at the time was used to the 6 to 8 weeks the opponents all had to endure of that stuff and nobody was an intellectual match for Ali. And he'd get under Mike's skin. Even the Ali underlings and hangers on would get under his skin---just imagine Bundini Brown and his constant loud barrages of his for 2 months before the fight.

The other thing he'd do is the locker room stall thing of his. Tyson might have to wait 25 minutes in the ring before Ali would enter. On purpose of course, all designed to make Tyson cooled down and not perspiring and so on. Ali used all the tricks and would be using them all.

 

Alis own heavyweight rankings place himself first, Jack Johnson second and Joe Louis in third place. Even before Mike Tysons shocking loss to James Buster Douglas, Ali said in private about Tyson, "He's predictable, the way he moves his head. He has fast hands, but hes slow on his feet and my hands were faster than his. The way to beat Tyson is with a fast jab, a hard right hand, and if he hits you, you have to be able to take a punch."


Larry Holmes, who fought Tyson when "Iron Mike" was at his peak, says, "Ali would have slapped Tyson all over the ring. Tyson hits hard but he's a bully, and Ali had a way of dealing with them. Can you imagine the things Ali would have said about Tyson before that fight? Hed have made Tyson so mad, Tyson would have been running into the ropes when they started the fight."

Holmes view of Alis ring supremacy is shared by Tysons early boxing family. Jose Torres and Floyd Patterson were guided to world titles by Tysons mento, Cus Damato. Bill Cayton served with Jim Jacobs as Tysons first co-managers. Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas worked with D'amato as Tysons trainers. When asked to match Ali in his prime against the best Tyson has been to date, all five said Ali would prevail.


Jose Torres
"You cant explain Ali in a conventional way because he consistently did the wrong thing in the ring. He didnt bend down, he didnt go to the body, he punched going backwards. He held his hands too low, he pulled straight back from punches. He didnt even throw combinations, he threw punches in flurries. And then he would win for two reasons - speed and magic.
Against Liston, Ali wanted to quit because of his eyes, but he got pushed out by Angelo Dundee and he wins. Its magic. Against Foreman he had no business to win, but he destroyed Foremans mind like a wizard. Its magic. If Ali at his best fought the best Mike Tyson, Mike would have more power, but there would be too much magic. Because of Cus, my heart would be with Tyson. But Ali would box Mike for 12 rounds, 15 rounds as many rounds as you want easily."

Floyd Patterson
"I dont want to say anything derogatory about anybody. All I know is, anybody who moves like Clay moved is going to give his opponent a lot of problems. Ive seen Tyson with guys who moved a bit, and he had difficulty, so imagine putting him in there with Clay. Mike can be hit with the left jab if you time it properly. I dont think he would have gotten by Clays left. And he wouldnt have knocked Clay out, because Clay took a very good punch and almost never got hit. Clay beats Tyson.

Bill Cayton
"I honestly believe that Mike Tyson at his best was the second greatest heavyweight of all time, but he wasnt Muhammad Ali. Mike is quick, but Ali was quicker. Mike had power but Ali had the greatest chin ever. And Mike unfortunately is prone to frustration, which would be his achilles heel against Ali, because Ali was the best fighter in history at playng mind games with his opponent. If Ali in his prime fought Mike at his best, i see Ali winning a decision;say eight rounds to four, or nine rounds to three."

Kevin Rooney
"Ali had that special belief in himself that allowed him to impose his will on other fighters. This is a guy who took on three of the toughest heavyweights in history, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and George Foreman and beat them 5 out of 6 and when he fought Frazier and Foreman he wasnt even in his prime.
The young Ali would have frustrated Mike. I see Ali coming out, jabbing, moving talking alot. If Mike had me in his corner and his head was screwed on right, it would be close. Id advise Mike to keep his hands high, be elusive, slip, move in; whenever possible work the body. Lots of feints, because Ali was a terrific counterpuncher. Believe it or not, id work the jab even if it ws to Alis chest. It would have been an interesting fight, with both guys missing alot. But even with Mike at his best, id give the edge to Ali"

Teddy Atlas
"Ali at his best beats Tyson at his best. At his core, Ali is a much stronger, more stable person. Probably the way hed have fought Mike was to rely on what he did best: jab, score from the outside, stay off the ropes, show a lot of side to side movement, neutralize the pressure, make Mike pay when he missed, tie him up when he got inside. After a while, Mike would get anxious and he would be throwing one punch at a time. Then i think hed break down mentally, which is the area where Ali was the strongest. And when that happened, Ali would start putting punches together to punch Mike downhill even more. Finally when the time was right without it being too dangerous, Ali would give Mike a reason to fall. I think Ali would knock him out around the ninth or tenth round. But before that, Mike might get so discouraged and beaten mentally that hed quit the way Liston quit".

 

Ali's my hero but I think of all the great heavyweight champions head to head Tyson is one of his toughest assignments.
The main reason especially early on is the hand speed to go with the power. Ali always had the edge over his opponents regarding hand speed, but Tyson as Patterson did runs him close.
I think the first 4 or 5 rounds when Tyson was at his most intense would be very dangerous for Ali, but as we're talking a prime Ali here I think his incredibly quick footwork and the jab would keep him out of harms way.
After this Mike's intensity tended to drop and as he had no inside game unlike Frazier, I think Ali would simply tie him up, frustrate him then keep him on the end of the jab and repeatedly pop him with that deceptively powerful overhand chopping right hand.
At this point Tyson tended just walk forward in straight lines and I think a steady methodical beat down would ensue with a demoralised Tyson being rescued by the referee late on.

 

one of those fights where i change my mind every day.

 

I never said he was a 3 or 4 round fighter, but he didn't fight with the same intensity after around 5 rounds, I'm only going off the evidence of my own eyes.
Why didn't others finish him off after 3 or 4 rounds? Probably because they weren't good enough!
I've actually got no problem with anyone taking a peak Tyson over Ali, he was in my opinion a great fighter, I was as a big Mike Tyson fan.

 

Mike, keep twisting in the wind.

Ali would make Tyson quit mentally. Ali was made from stronger stuff. The reason Tyson is never rated anywhere close to Ali is the general consensus was Mike lacked the mental toughness that defined Ali as well as other ATG Hwts. Think of how Frazier took so many flush shots from Ali in the blistering heat of Manila but although blind, staggered and exhausted he never stopped coming. Frazier said after round 14, you can read his lips, "I can't see" yet it took his corner to stop that fight. Joe begged to continue. You never saw Tyson exhibiting such will and there is a reason for it. It's because of that lack of mental toughness Tyson has little hope of beating the best Ali.