Why Mike Tyson at his best beats prime Ali

You're not getting any respect here because you're so obviously selective. You go on about the not so durable guys Ali didn't stop and ignore the very durable guys he did stop. No one without a similar agenda to yours will take that seriously.

 

No I say "stopped" as in winning the fight by stoppage, whether it be by KO or TKO. We all know Ali wasn't the kind of fighter to just come out and smash I fighter. But he did quite often win by stoppage. In 8 of his 10 title fights in the 60's for example.

Ali certainly wasn't like Bruno or Shavers, always looking to land that one big bomb. He was about tiring the opponent by making him throw the wrong punches at the wrong time, and gradually wearing him down with an accumulation of punches. In fact, there's reason to believe this made him extra effective against big punchers, since they expand more energy with their punches.

 

Yes, he was. But his stamina didn't seem to be the greatest. Neither Douglas or Holy were seen as big punchers, and they got the job done.

But I'm not saying that Ali would win by KO, or that he would win at all. There are some good arguments for Tyson's case in this match-up. And for Ali.

What I'm saying is that Ali's punches had effect on even his biggest and most durable opponents, despite your singular focus on his less durable opponents. Chances are that his punches would have some effect on Tyson too.

 

The idea that Ali's punches were so weak they would do no harm to Tyson is absurd. Ask Foreman, Liston, Bonavena, Frazier, Lyle, Williams, if he had no power. Look at Fraziers face after fight 1 and 3. Light blows do not do that kind of damage.

 

Again you're lost.

Please point to where I stated Ali stops Tyson in round 1.

It would be competitive for 3-4 rounds. Once Tyson sees he can't stop Ali and can't hit Ali and in return he is being hit with everything but the kitchen sink he will become a different and docile fighter. No plan B. 5-6 more rounds of this and the bout is over.

 

I don't think anyone has said that Ali would stop Tyson in his tracks with the first right he threw, so I don't know who you're arguing with. What I'm and others are saying is that Tyson likely wouldn't walk right through Ali's punches, like you suggested in the opening post.

And as for Thomas, you don't seem to get it. I repeat, you can't just hang everything on power. Many fighters who punched harder than Ali didn't stop the quality of opponents that Ali did, since they didn't have his precision and timing, and didn't land as many punches during a fight. Power is far from the only component in how effective the punches are. Tyson faced several heavier punchers than Douglas and Holy, but...

 

y. YOU know Mike, I feel sorry for you. There is no cure for stupid. Bruno as your example. Pathetic. And then to keep bringing him up in your argument. Bad arguing skills, terrible backup for your argument as long as the name Bruno is involved. Btw, if that IS the best name you have to defend Tyson, tells you how pathetic Mike s record was. Nobody ever has to defend Ali s career, he proved his heart and determination and ability in adverse situation s again and again. You Tyson can only make believe have Tyson win trying fights, because he NEVER DID. That's why you guys are so fanatical defending what never was shown. Bruno.... hahahahahahahahahaha Barney, you're gassed!

 

But the thing is that Thomas didn't manage to land many clean power punches. He had some success with his jab, but not much with his right (which he claimed was injured for what it's worth). And even then he managed to hold Tyson off for a while. It was only when Thomas, who had drug problems, started to tire that Tyson finished him off.

I'm trying to tell you over and over that power doesn't mean anything if you can't land. I don't know for sure if Thomas hit harder than Ali, but I know for sure that Ali had superior speed, timing and accuracy.

You have to get over your obsession with pure power. If and how you land the punches is more important, even though power is of course good to have.

It's clear to see that big powerful men like Liston and Foreman were rocked by Ali's punches already in the early rds (Liston in rds 1 and 3, Foreman in rds 3, 4, 5), so they obviously had some effect even early.

Perhaps Tyson wouldn't be rocked early on like they were, but it's good bet he wouldn't just walk through those punches either.