Dempsey and Tunney naming heavyweights who'd beat Jack Johnson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Sep 10, 2017.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,566
    Jan 30, 2014
    I'm sure this is old news to many of you but I found these comments interesting.
    https://www.si.com/vault/1955/05/16...-heavyweight-fighter-of-all-time-do-you-agree

    JACK DEMPSEY, New York
    Former heavyweight champion
    "It's unfair to name any one heavyweight as the greatest. Other greats were Gene Tunney, Jim Corbett, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jim Jeffries and Jake Kilrain. Tunney and Corbett would have outboxed Johnson. Fitzsimmons might have ruined him for all time with one of his murderous body punches."

    GENE TUNNEY, Stamford, Conn.
    Undefeated heavyweight champion
    "No. [...] The greatest heavyweights were John L. Sullivan, Jim Corbett, Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey, the greatest killer of all. In his prime, I think Dempsey would have chased Johnson out of the ring."


    Side note: Lou Stillman was already referring to feinting as a "lost art" in 1955.

    LOU STILLMAN, New York City
    Owner Stillman's boxing gym
    "Yes. He could do everything better than any other fighter. He was a terrific puncher at long range. Even Jim Corbett and Bob Fitzsimmons, who rated Jim Jeffries over him as a fighter, said Johnson was the greatest defensive battler in history. He was a master of the lost art of feinting."
     
    PeterD, Mendoza, The Morlocks and 3 others like this.
  2. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    8,129
    1,762
    Jul 1, 2015
    I think Dempsey was full of **** here. He almost certainly never even saw Fitz or Corbett fight.
     
  3. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,526
    Apr 26, 2015
    Johnson has been rated as the greatest master of feinting and blocking in hwt boxing history. Add to this the best uppercut as well as the smartest boxer in terms of ring strategy.
     
    reznick, bodhi and RockyJim like this.
  4. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,187
    1,302
    Mar 20, 2013
    I'm not sure if anybody could have beaten Johnson, even a busier boxer like Tunney....but who knows
     
    Ronnie Raygun and RockyJim like this.
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    60,779
    44,766
    Feb 11, 2005
    What do you expect from a couple of bros who burned so many calories avoiding black fighters.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,540
    28,782
    Jun 2, 2006
    Or Kilrain and Jeffries.
    Kilrain had his last fight in1899 when Dempsey was 4 years old. Jeffries had his disastrous comeback against Johnson in Reno 1910 when Dempsey was 15,in two autobiographies Dempsey never mentioned seeing Jeffries fight, I highly doubt he had the werewithal to trek across to Nevada from Colorado and pay for a ticket for what was then billed as the FOTC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,540
    28,782
    Jun 2, 2006
    Its an interesting piece, but not one I give any special importance to.Tunney was always highly partial to Irish American boxers and he had a low opinion of Jeffries who ,I believe was of Dutch descent.
     
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,261
    Sep 5, 2011
    I was most interested in Bernard Gimbal's opinion.

    But I wonder what Macy thought about this question? Not to mention J. C. Penney.
     
    The Morlocks likes this.
  9. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,717
    8,937
    Nov 21, 2009
    Thanks man. Great article. Thx for sharing. The kind of cool hard to find stuff looked for on Classic Forum
     
    mrkoolkevin likes this.
  10. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,018
    415
    Sep 25, 2005
    Fleisher sure thought alot of Johnson as did many others of his time. Jack's defense was great against the one punch at a time heavies of his day, would it have held up to Dempsey's two fisted assaults? He had disdain for Louis ability but he never met anyone who could put punches together like Joe, so maybe those two could have taken a win over Jack?
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,540
    28,782
    Jun 2, 2006
    Johnson called Dempsey a great 4 round fighter,he said after that he became pretty ordinary.
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,526
    Apr 26, 2015
    The idea that in Johnsons day no one knew how to throw combinations but 5-10 years later combination punching was "discovered" is BS. Fighters all through history threw combinations.
     
  13. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,187
    1,302
    Mar 20, 2013
    Enjoyed the opinion of someone who saw or knew sullivan
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,540
    28,782
    Jun 2, 2006
    And that would be?
     
    robert ungurean likes this.
  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,566
    Jan 30, 2014
    Do you think Jack Johnson's opponents threw combinations as often and effectively as heavyweights who came along 10-20 years later?
     
    cross_trainer likes this.