I somehow missed this comment before. Yes, please, I'd very much like to see the study you're alluding to, even if it's incomplete.
I would certainly also like to see such a study! I don't know, what you consider "small", but I don't think it would be rash to assume, that the talent pool before 1900 was much, much smaller than it is today.
Unless you know some things I don't (always possible) I think it would be rash to assume that with any confidence. The U.S. population at that time was 75-80 million, and there was basically no other sport to siphon talent. (Baseball was in its infancy, horse racing isn't really athletic in any strenuous sense, and I doubt many potential champions were lost to either.) On the other hand boxing was of course illegal for quite some time. Law enforcement however was also extremely ineffectual by modern standards.
It's just an assumption but the talent pool in pro boxing was probably bigger because: 1. There were less sports around then. No Kick-boxing. No karate, no BJJ, no MMA.....only boxing and wrestling for combat sports really. So deeper talent pools for boxing and wrestling. 2. I am not sure how much amateur boxing was going on back then. I am think every competitive boxer back then was a pro boxer?
Kanye West is a shallow narcissist I would bet anything Coltrane and Beethoven were too. To be that great you have to also be crazy. And to call Kanye ungifted or think his musical impact will be forgotten shows ignorance. Creating the music Kanye makes which spans several genres(Rap, R&B, Pop, Gospel and more) requires immense talent. People like you think that it only counts as music if you're hitting a drum, blowing in to brass or strumming which is closed minded. Creating music electronically requires just as much talent and sampling requires a whole extra layer of creativity. On top of it all he has to actually write the words
About 3 years ago I tried to break down the BoxRec numbers for the year 1891, in an attempt to find out how deep and widespread boxing was at that time. I picked 1891, as that was the year Fitzsimmons won his first title, and someone (on another site) claimed that Fitz's win over Nonpareil Dempsey overshadowed everything Hopkins had done at middleweight. I found that BoxRec listed only 8 countries, that staged pro boxing during that year: USA: 329 Australia: 298 England: 224 New Zealand: 37 Ireland: 15 South Africa: 6 Canada: 5 Argentina: 1 Total fights registered worldwide by BoxRec: 915 Since then (as of April 9, this year) BoxRec has found another 14 fights - bringing up the total for 1891 to 929. Again, according to BoxRec, last year 23.557 boxers took part in a total of 26.873 pro fights in 116 different countries. Are there any reliable numbers out there, that supports the idea that the pre-1900 talent pool was larger than today's?
Are you describing Kanye or are you describing Mozart? I appreciate your views on boxing, but Kanye is a music genius. Anyone who doesn't agree is lying to themselves, doesn't yet realize it yet, or are sheep minded. Kanye and Eminem will be known for centuries.
Your general point is correct, but the Kanye example is a bad one. Have you been to a Yeezus show? It's not a rap concert, it's theater. This guys first album from 15 years ago is still a classic. People will listen to and know about Kanye for centuries.
Yes but they won't rate him alongside J.S.Bach and John Coltrane. They won't rate him alongside Prince either.
Music is very subjective though, I think Bob Dylan and The Beatles have been grossly overrated too. I cited Prince as in a higher class than Kanye, but I've never been a Prince fan so what do I know ? John Coltrane kills them though. I get that. I just get that. I'm not sitting around often listening to John Coltrane or anything but I get how he's taking that **** to a different level. Hip-hop wise, I rate the likes of prime Scarface and Raekwon as high-level. I consider the likes of Kanye good pop acts, but maybe he's not known as hip hop anyway. It's often subjective.
These guys are tiny compared to Kanye, as far a geniuses go. Scarface and Raekwon are dope, and are originators in the game. And they are authentic, and can drop some real bars. But they don't come close to Kanye as musical talents. Not even close. It is subjective. At the same time, you can't replace the Mona Lisa with a 2 year olds doodle drawing.