Whose greater...Andre Ward or Joe Calzaghe

My argument is that Calzaghe's best win - Kessler - matches Ward's best win - Froch - for quality and that beyond that the strenght of opposition is not that different when it comes to their other top wins, and not enough for Ward's resume to be stronger than Calzaghe's without more depth.

I know Calzaghe fought many opponent who were just fodder and no where near worthy of being in the same ring as him - I have never said otherwise and openly admitted in the past that he liked his easy money gig with the WBO and did not challenge himself as much as he could have - but he still fought more former/current/future world champion than Ward did at Super Middleweight, and a resume is not judged only by the quality of individual fighters but the quantity as well.

As I said, it is legitimate to claim that Ward's more impressive for achieving what he did in only 3-4 years but he still lacks the depth to claim his resume's stronger.

And Ward had easy fights in four of his last six fights. Edwin Rodriguez, Paul Smith, Sullivan Barrera and Alexander Brand were no where near worthy of being in the same ring as Andre Ward.

 

yes it was draw really, and noone could argue with that.

Joe was so scared after that fight that he went straight back to facing nobodies with the legendarily unknown Rick Thornberry next.

Although to be fair , a few years later he was stepping up again.

 

You say that Joe's record is padded, then say Andre hasn't got the depth! Which is it?

Andre DOES NOT NEED the depth. He beat the best out there. Joe didn't.

Joe's best win @ SMW got absolutely battered by a green Ward.

 

i think what you mean is that if ward added pudwill, thornberry, myger, mcintyre, jiminez, sobot, to his world title resume, how would it affect his resume worth.

Answer has to be, zero improvement. They worsen it, if anything, because they indicate you are willing to take your viewing public for a ride.

The one plus is it might indicate is longevity.

 

Exactly, Herol.

Ward's resume is quality, Joe's is quantity.

 

if joe were 19 those fights would have been acceptable. As a 30something supposed champion they were a diabolical pystake of his fans.

Him eventually trouncing lacy and beating injured kessler is great, and shows he was world class in my view, but it doesnt excuse him treating the welsh like idiots for years on end.

It might be hes not ashamed of that because deep down he feels English not welsh, being raised in Hammersmith, and didnt mind taking the pyss of the welsh for that reason. Perhaps the "welsh dragon" image was just clever fakery by Wassen. Becasue I cannot for the life of me see someone like Froch doing that his band of merry nottingham fans.

 

Ha! True.

I think Joe, for all his ability, just never believed in himself. He was going to pull out of the Lacey fight until his Dad gave him a grilling.

You're bang on. You simply cannot be a 30 something WORLD CHAMPION and fight the people he fought and class them as title defences.

 

It's not rocket science, I've laid it out several times already.

Calzaghe beat 8 former/current/future World Champions, Ward beat 5. His best win, Kessler, is at least as good as Ward's best win, Froch. At Super Middleweight neither fought anyone of higher quality than that - and the weight drained Dawson was not a higher quality fighter than Froch or Kessler. Ward beat Kessler in a much dirtier fight than Calzaghe and I will never rate win in a dirty fight higher than a win in clean one - I accept Ward is better than Kessler and deserved to win but I dont count that as good a victory as Calzaghe's because of the manner in which he achieved it.

Beyond the bigger names Calzaghe has a lot of weak opponents, but he beat more noteworthy name at the division than Ward did. Ward does not have the depth of top teir Super Middleweights that Calzaghe does. He simply does not have it.

Recognizing that there are many weak and unworthy names on Calzaghe resume overall does not negate the argument I have made that Calzaghe had more depth of top teir Super Middleweights to his name than Ward does.

 

A lot of Ward's fights were dirty. Intentional head butting all the time, not to mention the low blows. This clown would lead head first, gloves down, from the outside!! I think he had 5 intentional head butts in one fight..I can't believe he would purposely incorporate this in his strategy for winning.. Shows a lack of confidence in boxing skills to me .. We have been watching boxing forever, you people can't see this?? You have to understand, that it is only convenient for the ref to call it accidental instead of making the "right" call. There is too much money in boxing theses days

 

This thread is the perfect display of the excessive fanboy ratio in the general forum.

 

God almighty.

Having Woodhall, Reid, Brewster etc on Ward's resume WOULD NOT ENHANCE IT.

Stop talking about depth, for crying out loud.

Get this in your head: Ward beat THE BEST of his time at that weight. Joe never. He simply didn't.

 

It's not about whether the fighters Calzaghe beat could have "enhanced Ward's resume" - who those individual fighters were is irrelevent to the basis of the argument - its about the fact that Calzaghe beat more of the top names of the division when he was active than Ward did during his time there.

This is not a knock on Ward or a criticism of Ward it is simply down to the fact that Calzaghe was around a lot longer in the division and had the opportunity to fight more people.

Calzaghe did beat the best of his time at the weight inargaubly when he beat Kessler.

Depth matters, whether you like it or not.