The chins of our two favorite Louises (Lewises): Joe Louis vs Lennox Lewis

Just like there is different types of punching power you can say that there is different types of punch resistance.

 

Lewis imo by far faced the bigger punchers, and imo was tested more because of it. Louis was hurt by Conn for God's sake, could you see Conn hurting Lewis? I sure couldn't. The simple fact is, Lewis had the better chin, but Louis had better recovery powers, take what you will from that.

 

Was he though?

Louis had more than twice as many fights against opponents currently ranked in the top ten.

Yes Lewis's resume was a bit heavier on punchers, while Louis's had more variety of styles, but Louis fought a lot of punchers.

Did Hasim Rahman hit harder than say Max Baer, or Buddy Baer?

I don't honestly think that he did!

Then there is the issue of styles.

Lewis had a reach advantage over most of his opponents, while Louis was operating in close a lot more.

I don't see why this is such an issue for some people to be honest?

Louis was buzzed by Conn, while Lewis was knocked out cold by Rahman.

Which weakness is easier to exploit/more likely to be replicated/more disastrous in effect?

No I can't imagine Lewis being rocked by Conn, simply because he would never have had to put his chin that close to him!

You don't need to be a hard hitter at heavyweight, to buzz somebody with a good chin, you just need to catch them with something they don't see coming.

 

You said it yourself though, Lewis did have bigger punchers on his list. That is just a fact. That is not to say Louis didn't, but they weren't as big in general as Lewis'.

It's a big deal because, well, Louis was rocked by a 175 pound fighter, whereas Lewis never would've been. That is an extremely important point when discussing chins. Louis was also knocked down more times, and decisively so, which again is a check mark in Lewis column. As I said, Louis had the better recuperation ability, and that is very important, but I can't say he had the better chin based on who was able to rock Louis. Let me put it this way, I see the punch that Rahman hit Lewis with also KOing Louis, though Louis may do better getting up and acting like he's okay. I don't see Lewis being buzzed by people Louis was, and that is key for me.

 

Lewis had more punchers on his list.

That doesn't mean that they were bigger, or that they hit harder.

We are not talking about Rocky Marciano here.

Louis fought people as big as you want, and as hard hitting as you want, and lots of them, and he had to do it from in close.

Why did he never find his Rahman?

You are trying to place a greater weighting on Louis getting rocked, and suffering a flash knockdown, than Lewis getting knocked out cold!

Can you imagine if you tried to use this logic with two fighters who shared the same era!

Lets say that Louis had been rocked by James Toney, and knocked out of the ring by Oleg Maskaev, only to get up and annihilate him.

Then try to argue that Lewis has the better chin.

 

No it's not. The two are not related.

Shavers didn't stop many noted heavyweights either, but I doubt you'd find many people saying he couldn't punch well for his era.

Rahman, when he loaded up, was a huge hitter. Easily the superior of either Baer brother or Galento. If Louis took a shot like that and survived then I'd like you to show me.

 

Being in the top ten of one era and being a historically hard puncher are totally unrelated. Louis's era frequently featured LHWs and CWs in its ranks. Louis himself was barely above CW. You could maybe, just maybe, argue that he fought a proportionate number of heavy hitters relative to his size, but not that he fought heavier hitters in a H2H sense. That's just not true.

Yes, he obviously did.

Here's the shot he landed on Lewis.

https://streamable.com/y5bf0

Here's Shavers landing his right hand on Holmes.

https://streamable.com/tx9oi

See much difference in either delivery or visible impact? I don't.

Lewis had his fair share of tear ups. Mercer, Holyfield, Bruno, Briggs, Vitali and Mavrovic all caught him good multiple times. I accept the point you're making but I still think, factoring that in, that Louis displayed an overall lesser quality of chin.

 

Louis's chin was legendary. "Although Joe’s greatness in many areas is well acknowledged, his chin is generally underrated. This is particularly true in comparison with Jack Dempsey but also in general evaluations. Louis’ chin seemed indestructible up to and including his toe-to-toe thrashing of hard-hitting, iron-jawed Max Baer. But after power-hitting Max Schmeling stopped him in 12 rounds with an almost limitless number of deadly rights (Max is said to have stated that he‘d never seen anyone take such punishment) Joe seems to have lost a little durability. Still, his chin remained solid. The men who would later floor him (Jimmy Braddock, Tony Galento, Buddy Baer, Jersey Joe Walcott and Rocky Marciano) were all excellent to great hitters." Expert Jim Carny

 

Yep. Here's good example of just how big a difference that can make under the most extreme conditions:

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It doesn't matter whether or not Rahman could punch harder than Louis'opponents, what matters is how cleanly the punch landed and whether or not the boxer on the receiving end seen it coming or not. Rahman's punch was about as clean a punch that anyone could have landed. But even though Lewis didn't climitize properly for that fight there's no way in hell Louis ever would have held his hands so low, backed up against the ropes and basically said hit me with your best shot.

 

Hard to tell with Louis, he always kept a poker face on when he was hurt.

 

The biggest risk fighter in a fighter getting stopped, is fighting high quality opposition, whether they are punchers or not.

Fighting a lot of guys rated in the top ten, is a lot more likely to get you knocked out, than fighting a lot of big stiffs.

The risk factors on Louis's resume are huge.

You can't tell how hard somebody hit by watching a video.

If Rahman was really hitting as hard as Baer or Shavers, there would be a lot more evidence of it, than one punch thrown in one fight.

It would be reflected across his record.

It would be reflected in the testimony of his opponents and sparring partners.

He would have been feared as a puncher long before he met Lewis, and perhaps Lewis would have known better than to get clever with him.

a better example of somebody who had that kind of power in the same era, would be somebody like David Tua, where it is obvious that he had numbing power.

 

Well Joe Louis was much easier to hit and floor, but he recovered faster when hit.

Lennox Lewis was harder to hit, and harder to floor, but you could spark him with one shot.

I'd side with Joe Louis having the slightly better chin, but its pretty odd that the best punchers Joe Louis fought who connected in Schmeling, Galento, Walcott, Marciano and B Baer all floored him, and none of these guys had the range of say McCall or Rhaman.

Lewis had an inconsistent chin. Bruno and Klitschko landed on him solid, but he did not go down.

 

lennox way tougher