Sonny Liston, head to head GOAT

You look back on Ali and guess. I know. That's the difference.

Give yourself 3-4 decades and you may catch up! Good luck!

 

It is interesting that boxing people who saw Louis, Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano (perhaps even Jeffries and Johnson too) tend to put Liston behind all of them or outside of the top ten. Trainers, writers, fighters and fans. Where as the generation of boxing people who came After all of them rate Sonny above some of them or all of these. Yes today they have unearthed film and information. But the previous ones made comparison from being there, they were there live that's how they made their comparisons.

I don't think it proves much, I just think it is interesting. We can't say that one generation outranks the other or knows more than the other. All we can really say is those that saw all those champions, as well as Liston, did not put Sonny among the elite of them. And they did this all most unanimously.

That's not to say they did not acknowledge his strengths as a fighter or that he impressed them, it just means in the broad view of things other champions did more and appeared greater to them. Even unpopular characters like Jack Johnson who claimed he threw a fight and outraged more people.

Also since the internet HW boxing has changed. Factors that did not appear to be as relevant then have become more relevant now. There is no wrong or right just a different view of what it takes to be more successful from one era to another.

The idea of what makes a HW champion today has changed almost beyond recognition. This all must be taken into account. And, since we are all historians here, it is relevant in these discussions to acknowledge earlier beliefs in context with the times.

 

I don't know....Ray Mercer on a good night might give him all he can handle.

 

So you're saying he would struggle against Vitali Klitchkso????

 

I agree. There is not a even a Ray Mercer type on Sonnys resume.

 

Tyson, absolutely. Out of the other 3, I'd say Dempsey has the best chance because of his quick feet.

 

It would've been good if he had fought George Chuvalo.

 

Yes Even I rate Tunney below Sonny. I just cannot entirely discount the almost unanimous view of that generation that Gene was better. After all gene got up off the floor (long count or not) to deck Dempsey and win on points. Dempsey was a more convincing champion than Patterson.. But like you say at heavyweight Gene barely did as much as Micheal Spinks. I would not put Spinks over Sonny either.

 

The closest to the type of fighter To Chuvalo Sonny fought was Willie Besmanoff. And I think Archie Moore did a better job on him.

I don't like to knock Sonny too much but he really had a short window of time to meet good fighters. 1959-1962. Before that he was a prospect who had to restart his career. But he landed lots of rematches. And fought all the best guys of 1960. It's just a pity that's all there was.

 

The Rings top 10. May 2017 issue .. for what it's worth
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Marciano
5. Holmes
6. Dempsey
7. Foreman
8. Frazier
9. Tyson
10. Liston
https://www.ringtv.com/488242-ring-greatest-heavyweight-time/
THE PANELISTS
Trainers: Teddy Atlas, Pat Burns, Virgil Hunter and Don Turner.

Matchmakers: Eric Bottjer, Don Chargin, Don Elbaum, Bobby Goodman, Ron Katz, Mike Marchionte, Russell Peltz and Bruce Trampler.

Media: Al Bernstein, Ron Borges, Gareth A Davies, Norm Frauenheim, Jerry Izenberg, Harold Lederman, Paulie Malignaggi, Dan Rafael and Michael Rosenthal

Historians: Craig Hamilton, Steve Lott, Don McRae, Bob Mee, Clay Moyle, Adam Pollack and Randy Roberts