Sonny Liston, head to head GOAT

thanks

 

Nah...Ali quit on his stool in a championship fight.

 

Back in the 60s and 70s RING never listed Liston in their top ten ATG. Never happened.

 

Yeah, all three guys I mentioned beat better big men than Liston ever did and demonstrated they could actually overcome weight discrepancies..but what the hell do I know, right. lol Liston got dat 84 inch dough

 

That list is not worth much ... Lewis and Wlad don't crack top 10 but Tyson and Liston do? GTFOH.

 

From the actual top ten Sonny beat contenders Harris, Machen and Foley. The other guys he beat were fringe level in the ATG scheme of things.

When Ali came up he beat Moore, Cooper, Jones and Lavorante from the top ten to make #1 contender.

When Marciano came up he beat Louis, Savold, Lastarza, Layne and Mathews from the top ten to make #1 contender.

When Johansson came up he beat Machen, Franco Cavicchi and Joe Erskine from the top ten to earn #1 contender.

I don't think Sonny did anymore than anyone else. In fact, once he was champion there were as many rated contenders Sonny had already beat in the top ten as their had been for ingo when he was champion. Since Cooper, Patterson, Erskine, Machen were all still rated when Ingo was champion for one fight.

Remember we are measuring Sonny against the greatest of all times here. Sonny hardly eclipsed ingo Johansson. How high is ingo rated these days?

 

But That statement was true for an entire generation. A great many years. You cannot erase this from history just because you don't like it.

 

No, it is patently false.

Have a look at the statement:

"It is one of the key reasons ATG and Liston are rarely mentioned in the same breath."

Note the tense of the verbs.

"It is one of the key reasons ATG and Liston are rarely mentioned in the same breath."

False statement.

Liston IS mentioned in most ATG lists.

You (and he) might have some small case if the sentence was in the past tense, if he had said was and were.

 

Footnote:

Cus D'Amato knew more than I do, and maybe even more than you do, about the sweet science.

In 1963, he said:

"Liston compares favorably with any of the heavyweights of the past. Any of them. When somebody asks me, 'How does Liston compare with Joe Louis?' I have to stop and think. So you know how good a fighter Liston is."

 

All champions are great, that's how they became champions. I imagine Cus had favourable words for Ingo Johansson too.

 

The statement is false in one era and true of another. That's all. One era came before the other. You cannot erase history.

 

Is Duran considered a great fighter?

 

Mathews was never ranked at heavyweight.
I dont think Lavorante was ranked when he fought Ali in62,he had been ko'd by Moore in his previous fight and outpointed by trial horse George Logan in December 61.
When was Cavicchi ranked?
Erskine fought Johansson in58, he wasn't ranked until 59.