Trout: Canelo Showed A Lot, But Draw With Golovkin 'Ridiculous'

It was a pretty easy fight to score and there was a clear winner. I think with the overwhelming numbers that have GGG winning by 2-4 rounds there's little argument that it was easy for over 90% of the viewing population as to who deserved the win. And with Boxing's history of robberies, gift decisions and hometown decisions it paints a clear picture as to why we got a draw as the recorded outcome. The reason everyone is demanding a rematch is because of the controversy....fans want to see the proper outcome where the right fighter wins. That could be Alvarez next time but the first fight was fun and exciting to watch but at the end of the day left a very bad taste in the mouths of those who felt that they witnessed another unjust decision in favor of the fighter who brings in more revenue. People wanted to see the LL vs Holyfield fight again after it was clear Lennox beat Evander only to be given a draw

 

Usually when you're praised for doing a good job in a fight, like Canelo universally seems to be, usually you're thought to have won the fight or at least came exceedingly close to winning to where whether or not you won is debatable.

But here you are acting like it's unreasonable to have Canelo winning. This because the majority of fans have G winning? Didn't the majority of fans have Kovalev winning the first fight with Ward? Surely the same type of thing was being done to those who thought Ward won that fight. It was the Kovalev fans who were protesting that decisioning arguing he won just like G fans are protesting this decision arguing he won.

It's your own personal opinion that Canelo's moments "just weren't sustained and enough to warrant a draw or a win over Golovkin". The majority of fans out there may agree with you, but that doesn't make you right or that a fact. I completely disagree with you and I consider a myself a very educated seasoned unbiased boxing fan.

The overwhelming consensus that stated that they had G winning doesn't prove that G won. Scoring a boxing match is hugely subjective. We already have examples of fights in the past where Canelo did very well vs Top fighters but the scoring of hthose fights was widely criticized by the "majority". So this is a trend of Canelo being criticized by the majority of fans for how his fights are scored. Again, that doesn't prove anything. It's simply fans opinions.

I'd like to remind you that this isn't a popularity contest. I could care less if more peole thought G beat Canelo. If anything, that just motivates me to engage with the majority and challenge them to justify such a view of the fight. It seems that most fans on here who think G won point to others who had G winning rather than talking about what happened in the actual fight.

There's plenty of a doubt as to who won the fight. I had CA winning the fight by several rounds. He landed, clearly, the harder, more impactful, more effective, more crowd pleasing, more highlight-reel punches round after round.

That's a perfectly legit reason to have somebody winning the fight. Just because you see it differently doesn't make you better than me or you're opinion any more valid or any more legit.

Speaking of people eating crow, what about all the people who said that G was gonna knock Canelo out? Wlad said he was surprised that the fight went the distance. You're talking to someone who predicted that the fight would go the distance. So what happened to G knocking out Canelo? Where that crow?

 

Oscar de LaHoya, is that you?

 

The only fighter who got a gift decision on Sept 16th was Gennady Giftlovkin. The total points in the bout was CA : 345, Giftloverkin: 339.

The reason why everybody is demanding a rematch is because of how good the fight was.

Of course we want to see a proper outcome, but you know as well as I do, if the second fight goes to the scorecards, and if there's no knockdowns, and if it's relatively close, either side is going to probably claim they won the fight regardless of what the scores are.

The fight didn't really leave a bad taste in my mouth because I saw the fight as a close fight. I thought CA won, but had he won that fight, it wouldn't have been convincing enough, and G fans would be crying and carrying on even more. So I mean all things considered I thought CA won, but I was OK with the draw. But if you're talking about who got a Gift, just look at the total points. 345-339. That's 6 points more for Canelo. Giftlovkin got a gift, for "coming foward" and "throwing". He got a "participation trophy".

 

Jesus shadow.

 

The only reason you are insulted is you are a cheerleader with no grip on what is happening in Canelo's fights. Everyone else is delusional but you ?

 

...CompuBox numbers are always wrong.

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That video is more accurate. You don't win a boxing match for fighting 30 seconds of nearl every round and trying to avoid punches (and not throwing) for the other 2:30.

 

lol I only called one post delusional, which it clearly was. Post #5 on page 1 of this thread.

It stated "in a fight with neutral officials Golovkin wins 10/10 times". How is that not delusional? If they fought 10 times, he's saying G would win all 10 fights. That's completely delusional. Anyone with a grip on reality knows that this is a 50/50 fight. It was seen as a 50/50 fight before the fight and it reamins a 50/50 fight after a draw. (a draw being the representation of a 50/50 fight in a judges decision a result)

Then the post stated "Canelo fan boys dont want Canelo to fight Golovkin with neutral officials, because they know the only way for Canelo to beat Golovkin is through robbery, thanks to corrupt judges." That is another delusional statement.

Then in the post delusional statement of them all, the post stated "In other words they want Golovkin to get robbed so he can finally lose, they dont want a fair fight."

He's literally saying that Canelo's fans WANT Golovkin to be robbed. Are you saying that's NOT delusional? Who as a fan of any fighter wouldn't WANT to win fair and square?

That post is as delusional and as absurd as it gets. And here you are saying "Everyone else is delusional but you ?" I didn't say "everyone else is delusional" I called one specific post by one specific posts delusional because it was delusional.

 

You can get praise for doing a good job in a losing effort. It happens all the time in boxing. We have seen instances where a fighter who lost a fight became more popular based on the effort and success they had even though they came up short. One fight that comes to mind is Fernando Vargas losing to Tito Trinidad. He lost clearly, was knocked out, but he did well in spots and gave a tremendous effort that he became even more popular afterwards. Loma's loss to Salido was another one that is more recent. He obviously lost, but he performed extremely well considering he was at the beginning of his pro career and took on a seasoned, former world champion who was bigger and more experienced....losing that fight didn't end his hype...it actually increased his stock and they were calling for a rematch ever since.

I'm not acting like it's unreasonable to have Alvarez winning the fight with GGG.....I'm just being honest as is everyone else who saw the fight and scored it for Golovkin. It's obvious Alvarez didn't win but understand the business aspect of boxing and the historical tends. I mentioned the LL vs Holyfield fight that ended in a draw....same deal. Holyfield got a gift...he was the hometown fighter, the bigger name and was gifted with a draw because of the political and economic factors that have far too much influence over the sport.

The majority of fans did have Kovalev beating Ward the first time around however it was split amongst the fans, pro boxers, writers and analysts who weighed in. 60/40 I would say....Have you seen the running list of those whom weighed in on the outcome of the GGG vs Alvarez fight? Sheesh....it's a landslide in favor of GGG winning. 90/10 and that is being generous and kind to Alvarez.

It's my opinion that when it's 90 degrees outside that it's hot....I'm sure there are a few people in this world who would tell me on a 90 degree day they felt cold. Of course I won't agree.....of course 99% of the remaining world population have my stance on the subject, but for whatever reason a small percentage of people would believe it to be cold. I'm fine with that. It's hard to understand but it doesn't change reality. Their reality is just different.

Scoring boxing matches are highly subjective...but it's pretty clear in most fights as to who won at the end of a fight. Based on your logic....it's very likely Floyd isn't really 50-0. The fights that went the distance could have easily been losses because of how subjective the scoring can be. The reality is, the criteria and metrics used to quantify a winner and loser in a boxing match is clear. If you look at a boxing match through a lens that's clear and through the scope of clean effective punching, ring generalship, connect percentage, effective aggression etc....the outcomes are usually not hard to call.

You're right....it's not a popularity contest. It's boxing, unfortunately the popularity of a fighter can impact decisions based on protecting economic projections. You see, boxing is a business and since Alvarez is so popular a huge amount of investment and interest has been made to ensure his career continues to move forward. That's the reason the more popular fighters typically are involved in the biggest controversial outcomes. Like Alvarez getting a decision that almost everyone did not see as the appropriate outcome. Most everyone saw a clear victory for GGG. But we have a rematch looming which means the interest and investment in Canelo is safe...and will continue to generate revenue for the share holders.

Canelo landed flashy punches and has a prettier style....no doubt about it. But that should not be confused with effectiveness. His body language and his strategy in the fight should reveal who was more effective. GGG may not have flashy punches or that fluid boxing style but his workman like pressure, subtle defense and ring generalship controlled the entire fight. He made Alvarez adjust his style....moving him around the ring at a pace he had a hard time sustaining. The flashy punches are great...but make it effective in controlling your opponent...not just to show glimpses of what you can do. If all of what Nelo had offensively was truly effective he wouldn't have been back peddling and retreating as much as he did allowing GGG to control the pace, tempo and range.

A lot of people thought GGG would get the knockout and had to eat crow....but that number of people pale in comparison to the number of people who thought Alvarez would win a decision if it went to the cards. No one likes to eat crow

 

You're in the minority who saw it that way. The gift draw only favored Alvarez who lost the fight. Points are great but it's the perception of the public that matters to these fighters and almost everyone who provided their feedback as to who won, side with GGG. It's a tough pill to swallow for a guy as popular as Alvarez with the fan base he has when they don't back the decision and side with his rival.

The demand for the rematch has more to do with the controversy, unfortunately. It was s fun fight to watch but that aspect was overshadowed by the unfortunate outcome that took the attention away from the fight itself.

If it actually ends up being a closely contested battle this time around and one man gets the nod there won't be an overwhelming consensus calling it a robbery and the public will be alright with the outcome, unlike what we've seen this time around.

Of course the draw doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth....it favored Alvarez and preventing another loss on his resume. It also didn't leave a bad taste in Oscar's mouth for obvious reasons. Canelo on the other hand seems to be uncharacteristically quiet which may indicate he's also left with a bad taste after getting away with a draw he most likely knows he didn't deserve.

Both men got a participation trophy for their efforts but it wasn't very satisfying

 

The 118-110 Canelo is a much tougher pill to swallow for you than 115-113 G is for me, hence the outrage coming from G's side. A draw doesn't leave a bad taste in my mouth, because you had two extremely close scorecards "that could have gone either way" and one scorecard that had Alvarez winning easily.

I find myself "in between" those extremes, with Canelo winning by a round or two, something relatively close but clear. (probably the same way you feel about G winning, by a round or two, something relatively close)

I also think the wideness of the Byrd card contributed to amount of people who had G winning. Had Byrd had a closer scorecard, people wouldn't have been as outraged by the decision and would have been more willing to say Canelo won. A lot of fans, media and fighters were more inclined to say G won simply to protest that 118-110 scorecard.

The only person who got a participation trophy was Gennady Giftlovkin because Canelo had the only "convincing" scorecard out of the 3, AND Canelo round after round landed the harder, flashier, more crowd pleasing, more effective punches.

I think you're not getting the "participation" analogy. A participation award is given to someone for "trying" rather than "doing". G threw more punches than Canelo, but had a difficult time "landing" "scoring" on Canelo. Giftlovkin got gifted a draw "for throwing a lot of punches" and "missing a lot of punches". That's why he got the gift, the "participation trophy". Canelo did the significant impactful scoring, but he didn't get the win because G tried really hard. G threw a lot of punches, they didn't land clean, they were mostly ineffective, but he tried to hit Canelo more, even though he failed to land any real significant punches on Canelo, it sort of looked like he was landing punches if you don't have good eyesight, so thus G got the participation trophy for throwing his arms more, for coming forward more, not for actually scoring in the form of hard clean effective punches round after round like Canelo did. There's a difference : A big, big difference.

 

No.

There were many reasons to assume that Canelo was going to get smashed. Here are some of them:

1) He's fought at a lower tier of difficulty than Golovkin
2) He's usually had a weight advantage
3) There were some questions about his chin
4) There were some questions about his stamina
5) GGG represents a huge step up in classfor him.

Canelo gets praised for actually being competitive and not going down in flames against Golovkin. I think he proved he belongs at 160, and that most of our doubts have been proven wrong. Should he not get kudos for that? That's not to say he won. But he did do well.

Because it IS unreasonable o have Canelo winning.

The majority of people know that drinking drain cleaner is bad for your health. But what do they know? You conduct your own experiments.

As for myself, I know Wlad beat AJ. That's what I wanted to happen, and by gum, it DID happen. 11th round? What 11th round? It was stopped in the 6th. Wlad won by KO. No, it didn't carry on. Everybody who thinks it did is wrong, because I say so. I don't care what the facts are. I'll invent my own facts

Hey there Herol111.

What happened was that Golovkin controlled the fight with his jab. He nullified Canelo's body attack by holding an arm across his waist and picked off many of Canelo's flurries with his gloves. He used distance to make Canelo miss, sometimes spectacularly.

Canelo did his best but his attack was more show than substance. He couldn't take Golovkin's punch and was in retreat mode for 90% of the fight. Alvarez also gassed as we knew he would and ended up on the ropes getting picked apart. His late rally may have won him a couple of rounds but it was not enough to outweigh a whole fight of back peddling and style over substance.

I hear that they are bringing out a new chicken flavoured ice cream in Guadalajara to be served soft with a feather stuck in the top.

Fixed it for you.

I gave Canelo credit. Should I not have done so?

 

... it actually turned out that he outlanded Canelo by over 50 punches and in 10 of the 12 rounds. He gave Saul a boxing lesson and showed him how it's done.

The draw was Canelo's "participation trophy" and now he gets to head on home with a pat on the head

 

No one deserves decisions because they "did well". You have to win the fight and Canelo has clearly not done that at least 3 times.

 

It's not a tough pill for me to swallow at all. I'm used to seeing these kinds of controversy in big fights so it wasn't a surprise. What's surprising is the rationale of those in the minority which is always interesting. The thought process involved is intriguing but compelling.

The wide card from Byrd was, special. Usually when the scoring is that bad it garners a LOT of attention as it should but it did little to help team Alvarez since very few thought it was close enough to warrant a draw because most saw a clear win for Golovkin.

The Bryd card would actually give Nelo more claim to that participation trophy you have offered to the two fighters. It was such a reach that it tips the weight in Alvarez's favor to take home the consolation prize. The flashy punches weren't as crowd pleasing as you may think....the overwhelming pro Alvarez crowd in attendance that night were booing their man at the end of the fight. Effectiveness isn't based on flash or how "pretty" a boxers style is.... it's based on who controls the action of the fight with more consistency and fevor.

I don't think you are understanding your analogy as it relates to the fight itself.. It was Alvarez trying to adjust to GGG's success in their fight, not the other way around. Nelo was participating in Golovkin's fight strategy. Unfortunately for Alvarez he didn't have the answer to take control and impose his will over Golovkin as you saw by his constant back peddling and being forced to retreat