Bobo Olson and Jake LaMotta

Jake for me.

 

LaMotta was a better mw IMO. But Olson is a bit underrated. I underrated him for years and then a friend of mine opened me up to him a bit more. He didnt do any one thing great but he was a smart fighter and fairly well rounded with a nice sneak right hand. One thing that even Olson himself admitted was that he was very big naturally for a MW and just had a knack for melting down. He swore up and down that he was a natural lhw and that could explain his success at 175. LaMotta on the other hand fought at 175 when he started boxing and at the end of his career and trouble keeping weight off but his body was not that of a natural lhw. He wasnt even big (other than his head) for a mw. When he eventually moved up he was strong but way smaller than average sized lhws.

 

In your estimation of Lamotta based on the Robinson fights, remember that tho Jake only won one, 4 of the 6 were close. It's not like he was blown out. He hung very tough.

 

Yeah and I dont think Robinson should be sold short here. He was already considered, in most parts, as the best fighter in the world at this point. Remember Robinson ENTERED the pro ranks already incredibly highly touted and with managers falling all over themselves to sign him. So he was an incredible talent. Im sure size was a factor but it was always going to take a special fighter to beat him.

 

Lot of twisted facts here:

The majority of ringside accounts had Robinson well in control of Abrams, the only thing making the fight close was two rounds taken from Robinson on dubious low blows protested by the audience. A guy loses 2 rounds controversially and still wins and the fight is supposed to be a win for Abrams?? No.

Regardless, Abrams, Servo, and Wilson were all stellar fighters. Is it some sort of black mark on Robinson (and by extension LaMotta) that he only got split decision victories over them? That doesnt add up to me.

Yeah, LaMotta had weight on Robinson but remember, the reason these two fought each other the first five times was that the big names in their divisions wouldnt fight them. Say what you will but Zale and Graziano both ducked LaMotta shamelessly. Cerdan was only coaxed into the ring with him after a hefty bribe was paid to him and an agreement stating LaMottas purse would go to Cerdan if LaMotta won ON TOP OF THE BRIBE.

Pretending LaMottas legacy rests solely on his win over Robinson is pretty weak. All those guys ducking him obviously saw something they wanted to avoid. People who should know better often wax poetic about graziano and how he might have done against lamotta but love to forget that graziano, who made zales career, got his title shot by barely squeeking by welterweights and never beating a ranked MW contender. Thats who Zale CHOSE to fight while talking tough.

As for Cerdan being old, thats not LaMottas fault. And frankly LaMotta wasnt exactly prime either. LaMotta had been fighting much better, bigger competition than Cerdan for YEARS and had more ringwear. Had LaMotta gotten to spend his career feasting on Euro trash like Fernand Frely, Victor Buttin, and the like his career would have been a lot longer. At least when he fought welterweights they were terrific, world class talents.

As to Cerdans shoulder, he had used that excuse before and legit or not LaMotta broke his hand in the fight. The difference was he toughed it out and didnt need to fall back on an excuse when he quit on his stool.

I dont see Cerdan ever beating Robinson. Thats pure fantasy based on an incredibly padded record. The guy has about three wins in over 100 fights against world class competition and every single one is well past his best.

Beating a totally shot Zale is a far cry from beating Robinson. A prime Zale MIGHT have gotten a win out of Robinson but by the time LaMotta was fighting Robinson Zale was out of commission and when he came back in 1946 Id bet my house Robinson would have beaten by stoppage or wide decision 6 out of 6. Its not like Zale, even in his prime, was some iron chinned unbeatable force. People have this bizarre impression of Zale being this monster but he wasnt. He could be outboxed, outworked, or even stopped and thats in his prime. Past his prime he wasnt looking to take chances which is why he fought Graziano and Cerdan. In 46, 47, and 48 it would have been ugly what LaMotta did to Zale.

 

I think Olsen was a very good fighter however

Olsen beat Maxim twice? Maxim was shot to pieces when Olsen beat him. Maxim lost 7 of his next 8 fights after the loss!

Jake himself was way past his prime when he took on Nardico and Murphy

 

Not to high on either. Jake doesn't make my top 10 MW either.

 

Interesting

 

I think LaMotta is being badly overrated here. Were talking about a guy who lost in his prime to the likes to Dauthille and Villemain. Why is Zale accused of ducking him and not Burley William's Villemain etc

 

A much overlooked fight is when MW champ Bobo Olson defended against WW Champ Kid Gavilan for the
MW Title. The "Keed" was very motivated for the fight in trying to duplicate what only WW Champ SRR had been able to accomplish against a legit MW Champ. Olson won.

1954-04-02 : Kid Gavilan 155 lbs lost to Bobo Olson 159½ lbs by MD in round 15 of 15

• Location: Chicago Stadium, Chicago, Illinois, USA
• Referee: Bernie Weismann 141-147
• Judge: William O'Connell 139-147
• Judge: Ed Hintz 144-144

• World Middleweight Title
  
  

"Bobo Olson, last night, hacked and harassed a left handed punching Kid Gavilan, whose right eye was spurting blood from the 9th round on, for a majority 15 round decision before 18,562 roaring fans at the Chicago Stadium. Gavilan repeatedly flashed vicious left hooks to the body and head which seemed to stun Olson. But Bobo seldon took a backward step and was willing to match punching power whenever the Kid elected. Gavilan coasted through the 11th, 12th and 13th rounds, trying unsuccessfully to salvage each of those rounds with his patented flurries. In the final analysis, it was Bobo's persistency and crisp hacking combinations to the body and head which repulsed Gavilan's bid to emulate Ray Robinson's climb from the 147 to 160 pound championship." Associated Press

• Purses (including TV monies): Olson - $122,866, Gavilan - $87,762
• Unofficial scorecards:
  • AP: 142-141 Olson
  • UP: 142-140 Olson
  • Of 13 fight scribes polled at ringside, all 13 scored in favor of Olson
• Kid Gavilan claimed he had injured his right hand on February 23rd in Miami against Johnny Cunningham.
• The IBC set Olson's next title defense for September against Joey Giardello. However, Giardello was convicted of beating up a gas station attendant over a dispute over the price of gas and the fight was scrubbed.

 

Well reasoned argument, I thought LaMotta slid after winning the belt

 

Who would SRR say was better?