Why doesn't Lennox have universal approval ?

I do think Wladimir's similar to Lewis.
Better longevity though.

 

That's your prerogative,I don't think either would go 10 rounds with Lewis.

 

Worse chin and competition.

 

That's one way of looking at it.
I'm not sure what would happen but neither of them have a shocking loss to someone like McCall or Rahman.
So, based on actual historical events I think they rank above Lewis.

 

That's true. Although I think Wlad showed some great stuff to get off the floor and fight back at times.

I think they are close, neck and neck. Lewis edges it with the superior competition probably.

 

I've never been that struck on Wlad but his performance against AJ pleasantly surprised me.

 

I think either of those right hands could have buried Frazier,perhaps not Marciano.

 

Lennox is a lock for Top 5. If you have him outside that, your opinion should not be counted in the understanding of "universal"...

 

I certainly don't have a problem with anyone having Lennox Lewis in their top 5. There are plenty of logical arguments for placing him there. However, having watched almost every one of his fights, I believe he falls short of top 5. (And, maybe even, top 10).

 

Lots of very good points here.

 

if someone is bawling their eyes out in the ring, you'd have to be a utter nut of a ref not to stop the fight.

 

I agree Wlad should be rated below Lewis.

 

Are you implying he was peak at the time McCall beat him, or that he didn't improve noticably under Steward? Not even the most ardent of Lewis haters would put that forward and hope to be taken seriously enough to rate reading.

Meanwhile, in the previous 7 years, Lewis had not been beaten and had defeated an extremely impressive array of big men.

Yes he had a woeful preparation and was on the way out of boxing.

For the record his preparation was brought forth in stories before the fight. Rahman and his manager placed a large bet on themselves mostly based on Lewis preparation and attitude.

There are factual accounts of the various things Lewis did and didn't do in preparation for Rahman. In contrast Rahmans preparation was orthodox and solid. There are various dates availble regarding who was doing what where and when - these are the facts.

Yes. Lewis was gassed, despite it being early in the fight and not fought at an overly fast pace. He was gassed because of his poor training cycle and not arriving early enough to acclimatise to both the heat and humidity. His arrival date is readily available and this (no time to acclimatise) is a simple undeniable fact.

What super heavyweights don't get sloppy and look poor when gassed? Most of them look awkward at the best of times.

Lewis was never perfect technically, no Super Heavy ever has been. For his size however he was excellent and made great use of his attributes.

Why would he? He was a 201- underdog in the initial bout and knew full well he got lucky. He was well aware of Lewis camp, attitude and arrival times and backed himself based on this.

Rahman wanted no part of a rematch and tried to get out of it despite a massive offer. Lewis had to take him to court to get him in the ring. He knew he'd got lucky.

And Lewis simply KHTFO in the rematch to show it was a one off.

When i first started following boxing an old adage said if someone had knocked you out in the first fight they were odds on to do it again. Fighters coming back from being knocked out and winning the rematch were highly praised. Lewis showed he had the tenacity and heart to come back and perform such a feat even at such a late career stage.

 

Absolutely and people place differing levels of importance on different career attributes. Of course personal likes and dislikes also often come into it.

Lewis' loss to Rahman for me wasn't "especially bad" at all. Unprofessional yes but at his career stage it's amazing he was still the top Heavyweight on earth. It's also fortunate he came back absolutely obliterate Rahman immediately as well as tack on a couple of fine wins afterward.

Lewis was right at the tail of his career when Rahman came along.

When Lewis fought Rahman he was entering his 41th fight. He was in his 14th year as a pro. He was 35.

Lets have a look at others at such a career stage.

Holmes was on the end of 2 losses to Spinks at this career stage in years.

Ali had his struggles behind him with Norton at this age.

Tyson had been to jail and lost to Holyfield x 2 among other things.

Joe Frazier didn't have this many fights nor fight this long (lets forget that one fight comeback) nor did he fight to this age.

Holyfield had been beaten twice by Bowe and stopped by Moorer and had just been beaten by Lewis around his 41st fight. At this age he'd lost to Bowe x 2 and Moorer. Same going by years.

That's just a few guys. Lewis had made a few defenses of his belt before McCall beat him and came back to win the same belt against McCall and defended it 9 times as well as picking up other belts in unifications before the Rahman loss. He then smashed Rahman, defended twice more and retired the best Heavyweight in the world.

The guy was belting top 10 heavyweights for 11 years. He lost twice in his career and avenged both.

That's one GREAT fighter by my account.

 

I have no problem with people ranking Frazier highly but Lewis also has many things Frazier hasn't.

He had way more fights, he fought way more years and had immensely more longevity both career and success wise. Lewis was top of the world years after Frazier had retired let alone lost his crown. Outside of Ali (who beat him 2 out of 3) Frazier's record isn't spellbinding. Lewis has an impressive array of victims in his wake.

Frazier would have zero chance of beating Lewis' opponents over the time span Lewis did. Would he beat Rahman at 35? Would he beat that version of Tyson and Klit around 36? Many in here would readily take David Tua over him full stop. Some would take Vitali over him. Lewis has quite a few victims who would give Joe a potentially rough time or worse.

There's also every chance Lewis beats the Foreman who decimated Joe. He would be a live underdog even against the Ali Joe beat.

If Ali was never exiled and kept fighting would Joe have even beat him? Ali was already in decline the moment his exile ended.