Oscar: I want to make Canelo vs GGG rematch, but Lemieux is another option.

The fight was close. 7-5 I can see scoring it both ways. So how can you defend the 10-2 card as you have done previously in this thread??

I give Canelo props. I thought he was going to get T/KOed. He showed the best footwork he has ever shown in any fight. He frustrated GGG.

I would also deny any GGG fan that tried to score this as 10-2 for GGG.

Any reasonable person that has been a fan of the sport and have watched a lot of fights over the years would have to agree this was a close fight on alot of different levels.

Please stop defending the outrageous card of 10-2. You are more reasonable than that. It is a farce of a card.

 

Frankly it's much more reasonable to argue that Golovkin won 2 or 11 than to make a case that Canelo won the fight, in my view. The only thing that will really settle this is a rematch and I hope that Canelo and Oscar are serious about making it for May. Canelo has come on in leaps and bounds as a fighter and I think the rematch will be even better. I hope that Oscar isn't going to try string Golovkin along to age him some more.

 

I wasn't defending the 10-2 scorecard. I thought that was too wide as well. I had it in the vicinity of 8-4 or 7-5 Canelo. I say vicinity because I find several rounds difficult to score. (like 5,8,&9) Usually when you have close rounds like that you split them between the two fighters so you don't just give all the close rounds to the same fighter.

The rounds that I am confident that Canelo won were Rounds 1,2,3,4,10,11,&12. (4 & 5 were "toss up" rounds for me though so I think splitting those two is fair) If I give G 5-9, I end up with 7-5 Canelo. If I give Canelo a round like 8 or 9, it's 8-4 for Canelo. I could give Canelo both 8&9 but that'd be stretching it as G was doing some good work in those rounds as well. Probably 8&9 could be 10-10s since not only did Canelo land some bombs but G appeared to outwork him. In 6, Canelo landed a big uppercut, but didn't land much else so that's harder to argue for Canelo.

joeyp130, I'm in agreement with you in that I could see scoring 7-5 to either fighter depending on how you score some of these close rounds. JohnnyDrama99 on the other hand is stating emphatically that the fight was "not close", and he said he had it 8-4 with G winning Rounds 2 and 11.

I appreciate your comments and your giving Canelo props. I give G props too. G came to fight, applied some steady pressure and did what he had to do to keep the rounds close. Good fight close fight, any reasonable fan would agree, which is why I'm so baffled by JohnnyDrama99's stubborn insistance that it wasn't close.

 

We've been over this before. If I recall, you admitted that Rounds 4 and 5 were very close, so right there with you giving Round 2 to Canelo and deemed Round 11 a "toss up" round. I gave Round 4 to Canelo and Round 5 to Triple G, but I could see how those rounds could be argued for either fighter. Then you have Rounds 8&9 with Canelo landing some big punches. Given all this, how you can argue that making the case that Canelo won the fight is unreasonable?

 

Ummm. Pretty sure that wasn't me, dude. You've been doing this too long

Because I felt 4-9 were clearly Golovkin rounds, even if Canelo had his moments. 1, 10, 11, 12 one could argue either way. The way I see the fight Golovkin has 6 "safe" rouds and Canelo has 2. You have to use a biased eye to score the fight even a draw for Canelo, is my opinion. And if we're going just on "punches landed" (Compubox) a score of 11-1 to GGG becomes possible for a biased viewer.

I ended up with an 8-4 score to Golovkin, which to my mind takes into account that Canelo did good work in there too. He just didn't do enough of it, and that's the consensus opinion (90%) of all boxing fans that bothered to take a poll.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

You believe that there are millions of people out there that think Canelo won that are just too shy to voice their opinion, so you're doing it for them.

Take it from me: there are not.

Instead of wasting millions of words on a boxing forum defending Canelo, why don't you do him the biggest favour that you could. Set up a GoFundMe account for a target of 200 dollars, and buy Canelo a pair of running shoes.

Canelo fixing his stamina issues are what will make a win over Golovkin possible.

 

Your post about her card surely read like you were defending it. Maybe my mistake. That was one of the worst cards I have seen in a big fight in quite awhile especially how close the fight actually was.

 

LOL you posted your punch counting of rounds 4&5, the punch counts you came up with were close.

8 & 9 you could argue either way as well, I saw 10,11,&12 as pretty clear Canelo rounds but admittedly they were relatively close. Basically you see 10-12 the same way I see 8&9 on the other side. We come at these rounds from different perspective because we're looking for and value different things. You value "pressure" and coming forward, I value quality hard impactful punches, body punching, uppercuts, making opponents miss, etc.

I had it about the same score for Canelo. We differ on some of the swing rounds.

Well, I just don't think that a hundred or so media members polled speak for the entire world. Handpicked people in the media don't necessarily translate to the millions of fans in the world who watched the fight. Besides, this isn't a popularity contest. I score fights based on what happened in the fight, not based on who other people think won.

 

Well I was just pointing out that several of the rounds that she had Canelo winning (5,6,8,&9) were rounds that Canelo had a good amount of success in. I really was just stating facts about the rounds, not giving an endorsement of her card.

6 & 8 Canelo landed major head crunching uppercuts. Round 9 Canelo landed a huge right hand. Round 5, HBO punch stats had Canelo with a 14-9 landed punch advantage. I was just pointing out that the rounds that Byrd gave Canelo, Canelo was doing quite well. I'm not sure if Canelo really did enough to win all those rounds, but it's certainly debatable. That said, I don't know how that translates to me "defending her card", more like me just pointing out what Canelo did in those rounds, which was a lot more than many are acting like he did. Many are acting like Gennady just completely dominated those rounds, which he most certainly didn't.

 

I had 4 as 14-9 to GGG and 5 as 17-13 to GGG.

Evidently so.

Golovkin made Canelo miss, he picked off his body punching and landed plenty of his own uppercuts.

Let's revisit for a moment the Compubox numbers, shall we?

Canelo's connect rate of 33.5% was a measly 2.5% better than Golovkin's.
He landed his power punches at a better connect rate but in the end - he only landed 4 more than Golovkin at 114 power punches to 110. Whereas Golovkin obliterated Canelo with his jab landing 108 jabs to Canelo's 55.

4 extra power punches do not outweigh 53 extra jabs.

Add to this the fact that Canelo could not stand Golovkin's punch and had to retreat, whereas Golovkin walked through Canelo's best punch like it was nothing, it makes it clear who won the fight.

 

I tend to agree with this. There was a gif floating around that I believe showed Canelos huge right hand land I believe in the 9th. In the immediate seconds after it is GGG that moves forward while it is Canelo that steps back. Normally a punch that big you would try to follow up on. For that fight, I scored GGGs aggression, workrate, and jab much higher than I did Canelo fighting in spurts. GGG seemed to have set the pace and forced the action. He was the Ring General for bigger portions of the fight. While Canelo did show good defense and movement, GGG still landed more punches

 

That's pretty close, especially when I'm guessing several of those landed you counted for Triple G were glancing punches that were either partly blocked, partly slipped, or Canelo rolled with taking much of the impact off of. And lets not forget, HBO had Canelo outlanding G 14-9 in the 5th.

Really? Can you show me some of G's best uppercuts in the bout? If you can, please show me what rounds he landed them with the time remaining in the round and I'll take a look.

I don't put too much stock in Compubox because as we can see they can easily be manipulated. What we saw with the padding of G's landed punches in Round 5 was very concerning, so I don't really want to give any of the Compubox numbers too much credence. I think it's more useful to discuss specific rounds and show timestamps at the best punches in a round, which will give us more of a real sense of who deserved to win a round.

If you are using Compubox numbes to argue who won a fight, well I don't know what to tell you. Compubox numbers have been proven to be incredibly misleading, and really to use those numbers as part of you're argument, well lets just say it isn't exactly convincing. It's clear that you're a "punch counting" / Compubox guy. I'm more of a "quality effective punching" guy. I look at things like defense, and how clean a punch lands and stuff like that. (if a guy gets his glove on a punch, if a guy slips a punch and takes the sting off a punch, etc) G landed quite a lot of what you could call "glancing punches". If you only count the clear "no doubt about it" punches, Canelo had the advantage in landed punches round after round. Clean effective punching is in the scoring criteria, not "glancing" "partly blocked" or "overall" punches landed.

 

sigh. I can see Imma going to have to watch it again. The 4th time, now.

 

That's a good observation, but G moving forward and Canelo stepping back after a landed huge punch by Canelo doesn't negate the landed punch itself. You score rounds by who landed the clean effective punches, not which direction the fighters go in between punches. There's no doubt about it that Canelo was retreating in Rounds 8 & 9 which is presumably why most people scored those rounds for Triple G. However, despite Canelo retreating for a good portion of those rounds, he still landed by far the better punches.

G may have landed more punches, but Canelo landed more quality, hard, head snapping, effective punches. Canelo also landed more hard thudding body shots.

 

Before ggg fought canelo he was the best ever! After Canelo, his fans tell he is old? Ggg are lame motha****ersss

 

G moving foward? Hahahahhaha who he is fighting? Fight charlo! But yeah we know he is scared like a fish