Oscar: I want to make Canelo vs GGG rematch, but Lemieux is another option.

DLH/Mayweather vs Alvarez/Golovkin is a solid companion from the standpoint that GGG and Floyd were both viewed as the clear winner but there were a small number of number of fans who thought DLH and Alvarez won. Only there was far more controversy in the outcome for GGG/Alvarez and far more people who thought GGG beat Alvarez than people who thought Floyd beat Oscar.

Neither fight was hard to score as both fights had clear winners. There also weren't any earth shattering punches landed in either of those fights. There were plenty of clean punches and some hard shots landed, but nothing that anyone could deem as earth shattering.

The two fights did have some similarities in how the action played out in the ring. DLH and GGG both used the jab effectively and Mayweather and Alvarez both chose to counter punch as the crux of their fight plan....the difference is GGG continued to implement the jab throughout the 12 rounds where DLH abandoned it and Mayweather was more active and more precise than Alvarez was against GGG.

The list compiled has been evolving but the names and their answers where documented and added to the ever growing list. However if you research many of those names you can find their feedback about the fight and the majority of them felt the fight was a clear victory for GGG. The 116-112 score cards are as long a list as the 115-112 score cards but the common denominator is 90%+ of the public had GGG winning.

Most had the DLH/Mayweather fifth 7-5 for Floyd...but I wouldn't say most felt it was close vs being competitive because Oscar did well, especially early on in the fight. He just faded down the stretch.

The immediate reaction post fight from twitter and other social media outlets allowing fans to express their feedback was overwhelming in calling the outcome a robbery and saying GGG won that fight clearly. There's no disputing that. The subsequent polling only reinforced what the immediate reaction from the public proceeding the fight.

I'm not one to do for others what they can do for themselves. Unless it's something that I know they can't do. For me to "prove" something on this matter would mean I didn't believe you had it in you to do your own due diligence to promote critical thinking on your own. I actually think you have the ability to do your own research and feel it's a healthy exercise for you to employ when you aren't sure about something.

I haven't avoided my score card at all. You know we went over each round in previously. I just don't feel the need to go over that with you again when it's already documented and out there for you to revisit if you felt compelled.

All 3 judges had Floyd vs DLH as a close fight as well only one felt DLH beat Floyd they other two had it for Floyd, 115-113 and 116-112 respectively. I think the 116-112 card in that fight was accurate in it showing Floyd clearly winning in a competitive fight with DLH. That would also be the appropriate card for Alvarez vs GGG based on how that fight played out.

I'm not biased.....just firm in my stance in the fight being a clear win for Golovkin. Again....it was competitive but I wouldn't characterize it as close....nor would I characterize the DLH vs Mayweather fight as being close vs being competitive. If I honestly thought GGG lost and Alvarez won, I'd have not problems putting as much effort into my stance for Alvarez, but the reality is that didn't happen.

 

The whole..."Canelo landed the harder punches" garbage has really picked up steam with the scoring-challenged...

 

Fair and well thought out post Johnny

 

Sure--Canelo had his Sportscenter moments--but how effective they were might be up for debate considering I cant recall too many times G backing up because of said punches--And that punch I am referring to as I recall was the single biggest punch of the fight--which G walked through and kept pressuring Canelo.

2 issues here--and maybe I'm wrong--you are debating with another G fan that thinks the fight wasnt close. Citing the many score cards and post here that support it was a close fight. But you try to explain away a 10-2 scorecard for canelo that does NOT support a close fight.

The other issue--and maybe its not you--are the Canelo fans that bring up the G "excuses" about the scoring. When it has been an established pattern of Canelo getting 1 unsupported wide scorecards in his close, big fights.

Look--I think I scored Cotto 8-4 for Canleo--but 11-1?? no way.
I didnt watch the Lara or the Trout fights, but from what I have read here, both seemed to be pretty close fights which, again from what I've read, I most likely would have scored for Canelo as well--but they both had wide cards as well.

EDIT--
I forgot to add--Even in the Khan fight 1 judge had Canelo up 4-1 at the time of the stoppage. I think 99.9% of serious fight fans predicted the Canelo KO--but 4-1 after 5?? No way that card can be serious.

Fighting Canelo to the score cards the other fighter seems to be at least one score card down if that is the kind of scoring Canelo seems to get. And its not just 1 or 2 fights. There is a 5 fight history of at least 1 scorecard for Canelo being incredibly bias in his favor--

THAT my friend is "confirmation bias"

 

Thanks Lance.

 

Golovkin is a power punching KO artist that was reduced to a jabber while Canelo effectively unleashed and landed the more telling power punches which as a result reduced GGG to a jabber trying to land something as significant as what Canelo was landing.

 

So Canelo Golovkin 2 in 2022 confirmed

 

I'm not sure what you are accomplishing by arguing that Floyd DLH was similar to Canelo G in that they both were clear victorious for Floyd & G respectively. I actually agree with your assessment about Floyd DLH, totally agree with it being about a 116-112 in favor of Floyd, no argument with me on that.

I think you would agree that Canelo landed harder and more significant punches on G than DLH landed on Floyd. Would you agree with that?

The immediate reaction post fight from twitter was outrage over the Byrd card in particular, which fueled "robbery cries" but as far as I could see, most didn't seem to have any problem with the other two cards of 115-113 G or 114-114. (cards that you appear to disagree with)

You've avoided your scorecard in the sense that you won't admit the fight was close, but yet on your card you gave Canelo Rounds 1,3,10,&12, so that means the only two rounds seperating your card from a draw is Rounds 2 & 11, both which you gave to G, but yet All 3 judges had those rounds for Canelo ! You're fellow G fan BCS8 had Round 2 to Canelo and Round 11 as a "toss up round" lol.

So would you agree that even though you gave Rounds 2 & 11 to G, that those were close rounds in your estimation ? If you can admit that those were close rounds, then my point was that how can you call the fight "not close" when those 2 rounds are all that seperated your card from a draw ?

Again back to DLH Floyd. I agree with you that 116-112 in favor of Floyd sounds about right lol. No argument for me on that, however, you seem to be using that to say that the same score in favor of G is appropriate for G Canelo which I obviously disagree since not only were the two completely different fights, but as I mentioned earlier, Canelo landed much more telling blows on G than DLH was able to land on Mayweather.

We're obviously not going to agree on the scoring of Canelo G, but unlike you, I can admit that the fight was close and I could see how someone like yourself could give some of those close rounds to G and have the bout 7-5 or 8-4. If you were unbiased, I'd expect you to admit that the fight was close even if you think G won. I have no problem with you thinking G won, the only problem I have with you is your insistence that the fight "wasn't close". I would hope you address my point about your scorecard and I really am enjoying this fascinating discussion with you. (In all sincerity)

 

Are you denying that Canelo landed the harder punches? How is it garbage? He did in fact land the harder punches. As far as how you score rounds that Canelo lands the harder punches but G landed more over punches, those rounds are very debatable.

 

There is no way, no way Oscar risks Canelo with Lemieux.

 

I wasn't arguing, just making the comparison as they align in some ways.

Alvarez definitely landed cleaner on GGG than Oscar did with Floyd. But GGG landed cleaner shot on Alvarez more consistently than DLH did in his efforts against Mayweather.

Of course there was outrage over the Byrd card....it was ridiculous, but that was only part of the outrage. The other half and more important was the perceived gift Alvarez received in form of a Draw. If you didn't see that then you were viewing the aftermath through rosed colored lenses.

Again, I didn't avoid my scoring of the fight. We went through that in previous posts and I have remained steadfast on the fight not being close, but competitive which I've provided reasoning for.

I'm more of an Alvarez fan than a Golovkin fan. I actually like to watch Canelo more so than GGG. I'm partial to his style but that doesn't influence me as much as it does you in giving him undeserved credit for a fight he clearly did not win. Was it close? No....it was competitive and Canelo made a good case for himself as a top middleweight but it just wasn't his night on September 16th.

The difference between Floyd and Alvarez's performances against Oscar and Golovkin was clear. Floyd was more active, more accurate and controlled the 2nd half of the fight as the ring general. Alvarez did not have control of the fight in any round as he was only finding limited success fighting in spots where he found enough space and opportunity to get off his shots on Golovkin. Also, Golovkin's success landing harder more telling punches on Canelo was far greater than Oscars ability to find the same level of success against Floyd. There lies the difference.

I don't mind disagreeing at all. I just enjoy offering sound insights that I hope promote a deeper level of thinking for some folks. If we can't find common ground it's really not that serious. You admitting the GGG vs Alvarez fight was close or Canelo won is just like the fans who had Floyd vs DLH close or had Oscar actually winning. I don't agree with either, but it won't cause me any sleepless nights.

I'm in agreement...these discussions are enjoyable for me as well and I mean it. There's no hard feelings on this end just because we don't align on this particular outcome. I'm sure there are more areas in other fights that we do agree on...DLH vs Mayweather for example

 

I think Lance is saying the harder punches came from GGG but Alvarez may have landed a few more telling blows over the course of the fight? I'm assuming....GGG's punches seemed to have more of an effect overall considering he was able to make it his fight vs Canelo having the ability to make Golovkin fight an Alvarez-esque kind of fight

 

A big part of GGG's style incorporates the jab. Golovkin has one of the most consistent and effective jabs in boxing. The fact that he had to rely heavily on the jab had more to do with the fight strategy Canelo opted to go with in his fight with GGG. Alvarez doesn't typically fight with so much back peddling and movement....actually he never does. That fight plan had to be credited to what success Golovkin's offense had inside the ring that night than anything else. If Alvarez implemented the kind of fight plan we are used to seeing from him where he stands his ground more, sits down on his shots and uses angles, lateral movement and head/upper body movement as his main source of defense, Golovkin wouldn't have had to chase Alvarez as much and he could have had a more balanced offensive attack. Unfortunately we saw more of a cat and mouse chess match than a boxing scrap with two elites who have power.

 

Ask yourself this : If you had to go through the bout, the full 12 rounds. and make a list of the Top 10 Hardest, most effective, most "thudding" single punches in the bout, would you expect that most of those Top 10 single punches you'd pick out and the highest ranked single punches would be Alvarez landed punches? Who would you honestly say landed the more "head snapping" "head crunching" thudding punches?

The major, significant big head crunching, body thudding punches that stood out over the course of the bout were all Canelo punches, were they not?

 

I actually believe you didn't see the fight or you are doing your best to rewrite history just to save face.

Canelo lost the fight, the only people who had the nerve to say he he won were Canelo, Canelos MOTHER, Oscar, Hopkins and a couple of other bias morons, that's it...

There was a list done on here of who scored what and for who, it was so onesided it turned in to a comedy thread.

The absolute gash you've come out with post fight is embarrassing. You're making a fool of yourself, stop it.