Toney catches Roy jones

Good stuff. We could i think almost call this "peak". I think he gained a new lease of like once he dropped the shackles of having to make 160 and went on a new tear.

 

Arbitrary nonsense. Based on people looking at boxrec not realizing B-Hop was robbed in the first Mercado fight(3rd round KD) that he took on short notice in a different continent.

 

You have no clue whatsoever or have an agenda to promote. Anyone truly familiar with Hopkins would realise what the turning point of his career was.

 

So what tangible did you see that was different against Roy Ritchie from him vs Mercado 2? It was literally the same fight

 

It was his dedication to training and a newly gained 100% focus toward boxing. The improvement between the two Mercado fights is oh so obvious. It was his career turning point.

 

So I was right your opinion comes from the fact that don't know that he took the first Mercado fight on short notice in a different continent. You're confusing the circumstances for improvement

 

You are short changing the improvement by putting it just down to these two factors. I would back Hopkins from the rematch on to well and truly handle taking the fight on short notice in a different continent.

If you want to pretend Hopkins was at his 160 greatest when he fought Jones then all power to you but many will know better.

 

Taking a fight on short notice in a different continent(you can add the fact that it was coming off a much longer layoff than usual for that part of his career) are tangible reasons not just arbitrarily picking a point.

 

And i still stand by what i said on all fronts. We will agree to disagree on this one.

 

Which part was wrong, there`s no way Hopkins was at his best in `93, he certainly punched hard but had none of the tricks he used later in his career!

 

Hopkins style changed as he got older he no longer walked forward knocking people out but became tricky and defensive, you can see that when you compare his earlier fights to later fights where he moves backwards or stands in front of his opponent waiting to counter a lot more than when he was just a puncher!

 

The first Mercado fight was very controversial. And Mercado took a lot of punishment.

I was at the second fight, at the US Air Arena. Mercado looked jaded - like he was stepping in post holes. He did little but back to the ropes and take a beating. Hopkins continued where he left off in the first fight. He was no cute counterpuncher in this fight. He overpowered Mercado and issued a beating. It could be argued the first Hopkins fight ruined Mercado. The second one certainly finished him off. He was crap after that.

The mags. said Hopkins should have won the decision in the first fight. It was in all appearances a home town gift Draw for Mercado.

I wouldn't say the Hopkins that eventually beat Mercado was much different from the Hopkins that lost to Jones. It just happened to be that Jones was a rarified elite. It wasn't like Hopkins vastly improved. He was extremely solid when he faced Jones in '93 (I was at that fight, as well). Against Jones, Hopkins showed all around skills, he wasn't just walking in to shots. It was a matter of Jones being too fast of hand and foot whether Hopkins led or tried to counter.

The second Mercado was a "turning point" only in as much as Hopkins finally got a World Title. But, other than losing to Jones, Hopkins was on an upward trajectory. Then, after winning the IBF title, he made a lot of defenses - but none of his opponents were as close to as good as '93 Jones, who beat him. Did Hopkins improve after the first Jones fight - absolutely. But, you could say the same about Jones. Their fight occurred when both were entering their respective primes. I think if Hopkins had moved up to 168 in '94-95, or 175 in '96-97, he would lose to Jones in a rematch. Jones was simply more gifted and better than Hopkins prime for prime.

This post will suffice for the other thread (When did Bernard Hopkins enter his prime)

 

I've got an article somewhere intricately detailing the how, when and why Hopkins career turned around with that first Mercado fight.

Hopkins improved significantly post Jones. Jones was notably more progressed than Hopkins. Jones had the best win of his career the very next year. It was 2 years later Hopkins was beating Mercado and another 2 to when he was trouncing Johnson.

Hopkins was on an upward spiral but kicked it up a notch in the Mercado rematch for mine. He improved quite a bit after this too.

Would Hopkins have defeated Jones peak for peak? Likely not but he'd have a bit better chance than he did. No shame there as Jones may have beaten anybody ever at that time.

The other thread started by Contro wasn't created as an agenda which is abundantly clear in one of his posts.