GGG is - at the very least - the Greatest middleweight since Hagler

There's nothing personal from my side. And highly emotional? Nice try child. No one needs to take any thing personal or emotional to be able to see the level of crap you post. Like I said, you deal too much in hyperbole. That and you love your own posts too much.

If you weren't dealing in your own emotion, why does it bring you so much joy to 'see 3G fans afraid' of a rematch? That says more about you then your 1000 word essays ever will.

 

And I can understand where they are coming from thinking it was too wide. I myself stated that I thought she had it too wide. I totally understand the outrage over her card. I personally thought G won more than 2 rounds. I have a difficult time accepting anybody who had the fight wide for either fighter. I thought Teddy Atlas's identical score in favor of G was outrageous as well, and I question his competence as well like you do Byrd's. With Atlas, it was coming off his embarrassing calling and scoring of the Pacquiao Horn fight, so his 118-110 for Triple G just further confirmed that the guy has no business scoring fights.

I saw it as a closer fight than she had it, and could have gone either way depending on what you prefer. Having reviewed the bout, I looked over Byrd's card and examined the rounds she gave to Canelo. I admitted some of them like the 6th round were a stretch to give to Canelo despite him landing the best single punch of the round, but some of them in my estimation weren't a stretch. I didn't agree with her giving the 6th to Canelo, but 8 and 9 I don't have as much of a problem with her giving those to Canelo. 5 I thought was a toss up. (I also thought 4 was a toss up) So her Card was a bit too wide in my estimation, but on the other hand Canelo did land some eye catching punches in the rounds she gave to him. When you have rounds that hard to score, it's usually a good idea to split the rounds or give 10-10s or something so you end up with a closer more reasonable score.

 

It doesn't bring me joy to see G fans afraid of a rematch. I think it's ridiculous that any fan of boxing wouldn't want to see the rematch. It's the biggest fight in boxing and I was thoroughly entertained and enjoyed the first fight ! I want to see the rematch like I'd imagine any boxing fan would. I just thought it was ironic because DLH is being criticized simply for saying that fighting the Lemieux BJS winner was an option. I was pointing out the hypocrisy amongst G fans when many of them have expressed a desire for G to fight BJS instead of Canelo.

 

If you can understand that, you can understand that people feel the fight was ruined by an incompetent or possibly corrupt judge. That's it.

 

So said it brought a smile to your face in another post...

Of course DLh is being criticized for that. The ONLY option should be on the date GBP decides he wants the rematch.

There's no hypocrisy because it's NOT 3G's team who brought up BJS as an alternative. They stated what they wanted, anmd that was the rematch. GBP and canelo are the ones who brought up the possibility of the BJS/DL winner as possible alternative. Are you really this dense?

 

The Kentucky Cobra,

It's not telling.

It's not black and white.

There's circumstances why he didn't move up to MW earlier.

He wanted to fight Duran at JMW as a gateway to MW.

He wanted to fight Tommy at JMW or MW.

He wanted to fight Marvin, but he never got the opportunity.

Marvin wasn't interested in Mike, because he was a great fighter who brought no money to the table. Marvin instead fought mega fights against Tommy and Ray.

The fight simply wasn't viable.

What a garbage answer.

And again.

Don't try and play the smart guy, posting gifs etc.

You haven't got the required amount of intellect to pull it off.

Anybody who wouldn't have given Mike a chance of beating Marvin, obviously never saw his career play out.

It obviously highlights the fact that Mike didn't duck or dodge anybody. Everyone's circumstances are different. Just because Mike didn't move up until 1987, that doesn't mean that he didn't want Marvin and/or he didn't think that he could beat him. He wanted to fight all of the Fab Four.

No.

I've already explained to you that he wanted to move up earlier. But he thought that holding a JMW title would give him more exposure in the hope of landing a huge fight in the future.

Again, Duran was his mandatory at JMW. Manny Steward had him at the Kronk. But Duran gave up his title, and fought Tommy in a fight that Manny set up. Manny didn't want Mike to fight Duran. He wanted Tommy to fight him. So Tommy beat Duran, which then set up a huge fight with Marvin afterwards. Ray was retired at that point. So afterwards, Mike beat Mannion for the vacant title, hoping for another opportunity in the future. But Manny wouldn't let Tommy fight Mike, and then Ray came in and made the 'Superfight' with Marvin.

Let me simplify things as I don't want you getting confused: Mike was frozen out of the picture.

He didn't purposely hold himself back, waiting for Marvin to retire until he poked his head out.

He couldn't get the huge fights due to circumstances.

You are being completely ignorant if you think that Mike waited out those guys.

He was a very awkward and respected fighter.

He was a slick southpaw who possessed a 77" reach, along with great speed and an unorthadox skill set.

He was rated outside of the U.K. after giving Mike and Kalambay very tough fights.

Marvin would obviously have been a big favourite. But Herol's speed and awkwardness could have presented him with a lot of problems.

Minter and Herol were nothing alike.

Even if you think Minter was twice the fighter, that wouldn't necessarily have meant that Marvin would have beaten him easier.

Surely you've been watching boxing enough to realise that the old adage of: "styles make fights" is one of the truest and most accurate things that's ever been said about the fight game.

You are the guy who's ignorant of context.

GG has struggled with a non great fighter in Jacobs, he's had a competitive fight with Canelo, and he's beaten a bunch of B class fighters, just like any great fighter should.

I respect everything he stands for.

I'm a big fan.

I respect his longevity.

He's a great fighter. But he doesn't have a remarkable resume.

 

Well whether she had the fight 8-4 for Canelo or 10-2 for Canelo, it wouldn't have changed the verdict. It still would have been a draw. So I don't agree that she ruined the fight with her card. That was simply how she scored it, you or anyone else is free to disagree. The real issue I have is with those like Mr. Drama that refuse to admit that the fight was even close. Many are arguing that the fight was a clear G win, which I find absurd. Basically it's the same feeling you had over Byrd thinking it was such a wide Canelo win. Both extremes should be equally criticized. One thing we should be able to agree on was that it was a very close, hard to score fight, that could be viewed either way depending on what you prefer. (quantity or quality, harder more crunching punches or volume, etc)

 

I'm not denying this or giving DLH a pass for that comment. All I'm saying is that I've seen plenty of G fans come on here (recently and earlier in the year before the fight happened) and say that they wanted to see him fight BJS instead of Canelo, which is the same thing that many are criticizing DLH for. I, unlike DLH or anyone who wants to see either guy fight for the WBO instead of the rematch, wants to see the rematch ASAP. That said, I'm OK waiting till May if that's what it takes. But I don't want to wait until September or something more further out.

 

The Kentucky Cobra,

More nonsense.

His dominance has to be respected. But again, you have to focus on who he's dominated.

Wlad had 10 years of domination in the HW division. But would he have dominated for a decade in another era?

It was impressive. But seeing as though it's his signature win, I don't see how he's got a remarkable resume.

They were held in very high regard by writers, fans, media and their fellow fighters.

Again, nobody in history could have fought those guys and dominated.

They were all capable of beating each other.

Boxing politics prevented many of them unifying.

In one off fights, yes.

Not if he'd had to have consistently fought everyone in the group.

He'd have had no chance of beating everyone without picking up a loss.

Well do yourself a favour and actually apply that logic, instead of making ridiculous claims like that Mike waited Marvin out.

Marvin's era never had the depth that the early 90's had.

He fought some great fighters. But he didn't consistently fight and beat guys that were better than all of those early 90's MW's.

He could never have dominated the 90's in the way that he dominated the 80's.

 

Just because he's accomplished more than Roy and Toney at the weight, that doesn't mean he's a better fighter than what they were.

 

People bought up BJS because for the longest time, GBP was non-committal to 3G. For you to act like both sides were equal on this shows great oversight, or you simply hate 3G so much you refuse to deal with reality. Could be why you resort to hyperbole so often.

 

Here's 40 guys who'd mostly school and beat GGG, all boxing at the same time once upon a time.

Nunn, Benn, Kalambay, McCallum, Toney, F.Tate, T.Tate, Hearns, The Blade Barkley, Duran, Jones Jr, Eubank Sr, Graham, The Hawk Jackson, G-Man McClellan, Reggie Johnson, Collins, Watson, Lee, Olajide, Lindell Holmes, Matt Hilton, DeWitt, Thornton, Pyatt, Starling, Curry, Mugabi, Sibson, Kinchen, Sims, Tinley, Sanderline Williams, Castro, Lamar Parks, John David Jackson, Milton, Rod Douglas, Schuler, Essett.

Post-Hagler and Pre-Hopkins.

 

Agreed. I think of "greatness" and "goodness" as two separate concepts. Greatness is your impact on boxing. If you do new things, break new ground, that all adds to a fighter's greatness.

Goodness is pure skill.

 

It boggles the mind. And I honestly am a big Alvarez fan. I look forward to watching him fight more than GGG, but Canelo lost that fight in clear fashion. I mean it is what it is. What's funny is the why some of these guys on here try to convince others that what we all saw...wasn't reality. That's why we see the overly complicated round by round, timed stamped posts detailing every punch Alvarez landed. It's so obvious to most the despair in the posts because of how hard they are trying to prove they have a valid argument for Alvarez winning.

 

Certainly an established and generally respected fighter, but claims of being among the greatest to ever operate at middleweight would be subject to much criticism and doubt were it not for having beaten championship caliber fighters at 175. Wins over good lineal champions, achieved while past his physical prime, provided him with a lot of validation after those Taylor losses. It's easy enough now to put him in a conversation with middleweight greats from past eras, but in an alternate reality where Hopkins had either called it a day after Taylor or suffered declining fortunes in his subsequent endeavours at LHW, that conversation would be deemed much more of a stretch. And even as a Hopkins fan, it would be difficult to strongly oppose the naysayers and insist that he belonged.

I mean, he was a 3-1 underdog against Tito, so the respect he carried into the final third of his MW reign wasn't so great that his chances of beating a blown-up welter couldn't be somewhat disregarded.

In overall career terms, his MW reign turned out to be a long training camp to set up the more transcendent feats of his "ageless wonder" renaissance phase. And the better work he did in that phase now lends weight to a conviction that Hopkins could hold his own with the best men ever to have campaigned as a middleweight, because his body of work at 160 alone wasn't quite convincing enough by itself.

Hopkins didn't go through stellar competition at MW, I'll be clear on that, though I'd judge his overall body of work at the weight a modest grade above Golovkin's. But he found a way to defy estimations of him and prove that he was special, not just a guy building a run on glorified C fighters and welters/LMW's moving up. Golovkin's been king of the dump for 5 years, bossing a glamour division in an unglamourous era, an era that would've made a solid cat like Dennis Milton look like a world-beater. Can he prove all us naysayers wrong and give us some evidence that he's special? If he stays at the weight, guys will come through to test him in his late 30's, and maybe that's where he could hypothetically build up some significant extra credit, in situations where he's facing hungry, younger men and has to muster all his experience and will to resist their challenges, maybe avenge a defeat to reclaim his crown from some bright, athletic buck or other. Does he have the Hopkins-like desire and interest to prove himself to history when doubt is hanging over his legacy?

Agreed. A fine scene, and one which was contemporaneously underrated. I'm not convinced that the HW era Wlad ruled will acquire similar esteem in retrospect, nor the middleweight era Golovkin has presided over.

For as tidy a boxer as Alvarez is, beating him was supposed to be the least of GGG's capabilities, and he couldn't even do that officially. Even if you have him winning, it's hard to say he did it with any emphasis. GGG had the fanfare years in advance and couldn't make good on his favorite status when the big night finally landed. Hopkins, on the other hand, methodically took everything away from a very dangerous Tito Trinidad, dominated him and stopped him in a big breakout upset win. That contrast says a lot in itself.

I think the even score was fair. The 114-114 card was turned in by a judge with an honourable track record; and though I find fault in his assessment of the 7th, there were rounds either side of it that could've been scored for Canelo.

Abel himself seemed to have Golovkin 0 for 3. A lot of folks agree on Canelo winning the championship rounds. He only needs one of the seven in between to grant him a draw.