GGG is - at the very least - the Greatest middleweight since Hagler

If that's your whole argument then.

[url]https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8152703.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Lennox-Lewis-attends-an-Islamic-Janazah-service-for-boxing-legend-Muhammad-Ali.jpg[/url]

 

Yes and could be run to a SD against Ray Close no doubt SMH.

 

Reported

 

Most people did not see it as a close fight. Most people felt Golovkin beat Alvarez, clearly. The Byrd card was definitely ridiculous and some of the outrage was because of that but the majority of the negative reactions from the fans and press was around the outcome. The draw was just, therefore wasn't accepted and that's why so many people were calling it a robbery. Almost every fan interviewed after the fight, who were live in attendance said GGG was robbed or said he deserved the win and most were Alvarez fans. Many of them wearing Canelo hats or shirts. Most saw the fight as competitive, not close.

 

Then why were the most common scores given amongst the media / fighters 6-6, 7-5 TG, and 8-4 TG? That makes the average score amongst those asked who gave a score about 7-5 TG. You had a handful of outliers giving scores of 9-3 TG, 7-5 CA, & 8-4 CA, and of course Teddy Atlas with his 10-2 TG, but if you add them all up and take an average, you would end up with a score of about 7-5 TG. If the average score given was closer to 9-3 or even 8-4, then you could more reasonably make the argument that most people didn't have it close.

We can go on and on in circles debating whether most people had it close or not, but there simply weren't enough 8-4, 9-3 or 10-2 cards for you to make that argument. I know how much it stings you to know that so many people had it closer that you had it, but that's life. It's better to just accept what's blatantly obvious than to live in denial. I know how much more you were expecting of Triple G, you probably thought he was gonna have an easier time with Alvarez than he did, maybe you thought he'd hurt Alvarez, knock him down or knock him out, and since that didn't happen, you feel a need to compensate for that not happening by arguing so desperately that he won so clearly. Personally I find it hilarious the lengths you will go to convince people of this, but it makes for an entertaining boxing debate which I'm happy to be a part of.

The best you can argue based on that data is that there were a good chunk of people who thought G won clearly, and another good chunk of people who had it close. What exactly the percentages are are hard to calculate, because a good amount didn't give scores, weren't interviewed, or didn't indicate how close they had it. And remember, and you know I've made this point before, but we're only going by a hundred or so media members and fighters. As much as you believe in the accuracy of polling, we really have no way to know if such a small sample size of people actually represent how the whole of the boxing world sees the fight. Generally, the larger the sample size, the closer polling gets to 50/50. Look at presidental elections, in a small town's local election you could get a 90% / 10% split or a 85%/15% split or something, but when you tally every precinct and state, and you get the total popular vote, typically the popular vote ends up being within 1% or something incredibly close when all is said and done. Surely if you polled every single person in the entire world who watched the fight you'd get something closer to 50%/50% in terms of who won or whether it was close or not than you got from those 100 or so media members + fighters giving their reactions.

There's no denying of that of those hundred or so people in the media and fighters asked, a lot more people had G winning than had Canelo winning. Never have I denied that. Only a handful of them had Canelo winning, only a handful had G winning more than 8 rounds, and there were a relatively even split between those that had it 6-6 even, 7-5 TG, and 8-4 TG respectively. That averages out to about 7-5 TG which is pretty much as close as it gets without it being a draw. Those are just the facts, I've laid it out as good as I can for you, and if you read this and still can't meet me halfway, then I don't know what else to tell you. Believe what you want to believe as far as how close you thought it was, but when it comes to what most people thought, that's something that's difficult to be certain of. You speak as if you have your hand on the pulse of the world and in reality you're just a fan with an opinion and are trying to project your view on the whole of the boxing community.

 

You're struggling and the desperation is seeping out through your posts. Stop trying so hard. I'm not. Your foundation is weak which is why you attempt to over complicate this topic which is so straightforward it exposes your insecurities. Just like saying this "stings" for me? Lol.

You're silly shadow. The more you post and over explain your argument in a desperate attempt to defend, it's like you're just revealing more about yourself than you probably notice. I don't want to call it embarrassing, but...chill man. Less is more...especially in your case. You just haven't figured it out yet

OFFICIAL CARDS
Dave Moretti --------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Don Trella -----------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Adelaide Byrd -------------------------------> 118-110 Canelo

****************************************************

Teddy Atlas --------------------------------> 118-110 GGG
Unnamed boxing site #1 ------------------> 118-110 GGG
Jeff Powell (UK Daily Mail) ----------------> 118-111 GGG
Kelly Pavlik ---------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
Dave Allen ----------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
Mookie Alexander (Bloody Elbow) --------> 117-111 GGG
Brian Campbell (CBS) ---------------------> 117-111 GGG
Jack Rathborn (Mirror UK) ----------------> 117-111 GGG
Harold Lederman (HBO) ------------------> 116-112 GGG
Devon Alexander --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Dan Rafael (ESPN) ------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Al Bernstein -------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bryan Graham (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-112 GGG
Gareth Davies (UK Telegraph) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Steve Bunce (BoxNation) ----------------> 116-112 GGG
Tom Loeffler ------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Sergio Martinez ---------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Amir Khan ---------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Matthew Macklin --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Steve Lillis (BoxNation) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bob Velin (USA Today) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Lyle Fitzsimmons (CBS) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin McRae (Bleacher Report) -----------> 116-112 GGG
Shaun Al-Shatti (MMA Fighting) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Ryan Frederick (Wrestling Observer) ----> 116-112 GGG
Patrick Stumberg (MMA Mania) ----------> 116-112 GGG
Michael Woods (Ring) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Nigel Collins (ESPN) ----------------------> 116-112 GGG
Cliff Rold ----------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Bad Left Hook Writer #2 -----------------> 116-112 GGG
John A. MacDonald (Boxing Monthly) ---> 116-112 GGG
Ron Lewis (The Times) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
Daniel Cormier (UFC) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
Dardan Zenunaj --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
Kevin Mitchell (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-113 GGG
Josh Taylor --------------------------------> 116-113 GGG
Joshua Bautsi -----------------------------> 116-113 GGG
Matt Christie (Boxing News) -------------> 116-113 GGG
Barry Jones (BoxNation) -----------------> 116-113 GGG
Adam Booth -------------------------------> 116-114 GGG
Jordan Breen (Sherdog) ------------------> 115-112 GGG
Caleb Truax -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Kevin Iole (Yahoo) ------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Gary Locket -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Will Esco (Bad Left Hook) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Phil Murphy (ESPN) -----------------------> 115-113 GGG
Mike Harris (SI) ---------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Paul Fontaine (Wrestling Observer) ------> 115-113 GGG
MMA Brazil ---------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Sean Sheehan (Severe MMA) -------------> 115-113 GGG
Rob Tatum (Combat Press) ----------------> 115-113 GGG
Patrick Wyman (Bleacher Report) ---------> 115-113 GGG
Chavez Jr -----------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Juan Manuel Marquez ----------------------> 115-113 GGG
Joel Diaz ------------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
Marc Livitz (SecondsOut) ------------------> 115-113 GGG
Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly) -------> 115-113 GGG
Ed Robinson (Sky Sports) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
Unnamed boxing site #2 ------------------> 115-113 GGG
Tom Gray (Ring) ---------------------------> 115-114 GGG
Max Kellerman -----------------------------> Golovkin
Lennox Lewis ------------------------------> Golovkin
Shane Mosley ------------------------------> Golovkin
Austin Trout --------------------------------> Golovkin
Paulie Malignaggi --------------------------> Golovkin
Enzo Macarenelli ---------------------------> Golovkin
Scott Cardle --------------------------------> Golvokin
Terence Crawford ---------------------------> Golovkin
Reece Bellotti ------------------------------> Golvokin
Liam Smith ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Peter Quillin --------------------------------> Golovkin
Liam Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
Ohara Davies -------------------------------> Golovkin
Luke Campbell -----------------------------> Golovkin
Dave Coldwell ------------------------------> Golovkin
Badou Jack ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Kevin Kelly (boxer) -------------------------> Golovkin
Steve Kim -----------------------------------> Golovkin
Doug Fischer --------------------------------> Golovkin
Ring TV guy (name?) ----------------------> Golvokin
Cornelius Bundrage ------------------------> Golovkin
Gabriel Rosado ------------------------------> Golovkin
Kal Yafai -------------------------------------> Golovkin
Julian Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
Vanes Martirosyan --------------------------> Golovkin
Michael Montero ----------------------------> Golovkin
James Brady (SB Nation) ------------------> Golovkin
Joe Rogan (UFC) ----------------------------> Golovkin
Jim Rome (sports broadcaster) ------------> Golovkin
Kovalev -------------------------------------> Golvokin
Danny Jacobs -------------------------------> Golovkin
Murat Gassiev ------------------------------> Golovkin
Johnny Nelson ------------------------------> Golovkin
Rosie Perez ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Lou DiBella ---------------------------------> Golovkin
Tony Jeffries --------------------------------> Golovkin
Martin Samuel (UK Daily Mail) -------------> Golovkin
Joseph Parker ------------------------------> Golovkin
Bob Arum ----------------------------------> Golovkin
Fernando Schwarz (Fox Sports Mexico) --> Golovkin
Sportsbook 1 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 2 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 3 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 4 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 5 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 6 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Sportsbook 7 ------------------------------> Golovkin
Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub) --------------> Golovkin
Ana Julaton --------------------------------> Golovkin
John Buccigross (ESPN) -------------------> Golovkin
Nonito Donaire -----------------------------> Golovkin
Leo Santa Cruz ----------------------------> Golovkin
Fernando Vargas ---------------------------> Golovkin
Michael Bisping (UFC) ---------------------> Golovkin
Narhan Gorman ---------------------------> Golovkin
Lance Pugmire (LA Times) ----------------> 114-114 Draw
Chris Mannix (Yahoo) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
Associated Press --------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Kenny Porter ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Roy Jones ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Peter Fury ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Tommy Hearns ----------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Joe Cortez ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Liam Happe (Yahoo Sport UK) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News) ---> 114-114 Draw
Gilbert Manzano (Denver Post) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Ben Thompson (Fight Hype) -------------> 114-114 Draw
Brian Kenny (MLB Network) -------------> 114-114 Draw
Eric Rasken (HBO) -----------------------> 114-114 Draw
Danny Flexen (British Boxers) -----------> 114-114 Draw
Kieran Mulvaney (HBO) ------------------> 114-114 Draw
David Greisman (former writer) ---------> 114-114 Draw
George Foreman --------------------------> 114-114 Draw (supposedly said)
Unnamed writer (Unnamed site #3) -----> 114-114 Draw
Robert Garcia ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Glen McCrory ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
Danny Howard (Boxing Tribune) ---------> 115-114 Canelo
Bernardo Osuna (ESPN Deportes) --------> 115-114 Canelo
De La Hoya --------------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Bernard Hopkins --------------------------> 115-113 Canelo
Gilbert Mendoza (President of WBA) -----> 115-113 Canelo
Coach Anthony ----------------------------> 116-112 Canelo
Erik Morales -------------------------------> 117-111 Canelo (think he said; see video page 3)
Chavez Sr ---------------------------------> Canelo
Sergio Mora -------------------------------> Canelo

My scorecard = 8-4 for GGG in the bout.
[116-112 GGG, although can also see 117-111 GGG]

128 = GGG won
021 = Draw
009 = Canelo won [includes 2 Golden Boy promoters]

128/158 = 81% had GGG winning the fight.
021/158 = 13% had a draw.
009/158 = 05% had Canelo winning the fight.

 

You forgot Canelo's Mom....

 

Lol....I didn't want to bring momma's into this. There are certain lines bro

 

By my count, you have 55 entries had TG winning with no score given. So of those 55, we have no idea whether they thought it was close or not. Of those that had it for TG, 9 aren't named people : 2 are "unknown" and then there's "Sportsbook 1-7". We have no idea who these people are.

Out of the people, the named human beings, who gave a score (which is what you are arguing - that most saw had it clear for TG ) by my count :

You have 21 draws.

You have 19 who had it 7-5 for TG

You have 26 who had it 8-4 for TG

You have 5 who had it 9-3 for TG

You have 1 who had it 10-2 for TG (Atlas, the other entry is "unnamed")

You had about 10 others who had it for TG with even rounds, 9 of them had it closer than 8-4 TG, only one who had it wider (118-111).

You had 9 on that list who had it for CA, plus Jeff Mayweather, Floyd Mayweather Sr, Deontay Wilder, and Marco Antonio Barrera who each said they had it for Canelo.

That's 13 (at least) who had it for Canelo.

So lets review :

You have 21 draws.

You have 19 who had it 7-5 for TG

You have 26 who had it 8-4 for TG

You have 9 who had it less than 8-4 for TG (with 10-10 rounds)

You have 7 who had it wider than 8-4 for TG

You have 13 who had it for Canelo

You have 48 other named human beings who had it for Gennady but did not specify the score. (so for those 48 we have no way to know if they had it close or not)

Brainiac, you tell me how that proves that most had it a clear G win???

Out of all those 85 people who gave a score, we only have 7 that had it wider than 8-4 for TG. (which is wide enough that we can definitively consider wide / clear / not close)

Out of the 85 humans listed who gave a score, we only have 33 / 85 (38.8%) that had Triple G winning 8 or more rounds. That's not a majority or most of the people. 8 rounds to 4 isn't even necessarily clear or not close. (8 rounds to 4 in my estimation could be close or not close depending on how close the rounds were) But lets assume just to give your argument you every advantage that all those 8 rounds to 4 represent a clear and decisive victory for Triple G and considered not close, which is a huge assumption, even with all those 8-4 assumed to be a clear Triple G win, that's still not even close to the majority or most.

Where's the desperation? This is simple math based on the polling and what you're saying.

61.2% of the people who gave a score had it 7-5 in favor or TG or closer, a draw, or a Canelo win. (including 3 that had it 7-4-1even TG)

When over 60% of the people polled had it 7-5 G, a draw, or a Canelo win, that indicates it's a close fight brainiac. Hence, the majority polled listed there had it close period : Case Closed.

There's simply no way for you to argue otherwise. The math doesn't lie. (if my calculations are off please let me know) Otherwise, put an end to your charade and quit your incalculable attempts to argue most people had the fight close based on this data. (remember I'm giving you all the 8-4s as clear decisive TG wins and you still can't even come close to 50% lmfao)

 

You're funny man. Why are you so heated? Relax. The problem with you is, you're looking for a fight that you can't win. There's such an overwhelming amount of people, fans, boxers, trainers, writers and analysts who had GGG beating Alvarez clearly...and the numbers don't lie. Just let it go. Stop trying so hard. The more you struggle, the more you come off looking foolish and irrational.

It's like you've gotten to the point where you can't turn back. As if the embarrassment you've endured can't get any worse, but is it really worth it? This is all self inflicted, shadow. You have an excuse for everything that doesn't align with your take on the fight. Even down to the fans reaction who were live in attendance after the decision was declared a draw. "They weren't boo'ing the decision, they were boo'ing the Byrd card"...."they weren't boo'ing Alvarez, they were boo'ing Max Kellerman"....."they weren't cheering GGG because they thought he won". Sheesh...Surely you don't believe all the stuff that you post?

It's too much bro. Lol. Get a hold of yourself. I get that you are a massive Alvarez fan....and that is probably the understatement of the year, but it doesn't mean you have to make yourself look ridiculous in your quest to defend his performance. Let his work inside the ring speak for itself. If it's not his best work, or if he came up short...so be it. You're not moving mountains or making any headway convincing me or anyone else that Alvarez won....or even his efforts warranted a draw on the official score cards. It just wasn't that close and the overwhelming number of folks who weighed in share the same sentiment. That's not a diss to your boy...he knocked out a few corners and made it competitive. It just wasn't Canelo's night.

Your loyalty to Canelo is....special. Nothing wrong with that. It just shouldn't blind you to the point where it is getting you this emotionally charged. It definitely shouldn't be the cause of unnecessary embarrassment.

 

My loyalty isn't to Canelo. My loyalty is to the sport of boxing and to accurately and intelligently describe what occurs in the ring. You'd rather talk about what other people thought rather than talk about what happened in the ring. So what I did there was I took the data that you provided and tallied it, and examined your claim with the data.

You stated that the overwhelming majority (most people) had the fight as a clear decisive win for Triple G. As much as you want that to be true, unfortunately for you the data that you presented doesn't indicate that. As I pointed out, over 60% of those polled had the fight either 7-5 TG, a draw, or a Canelo win. (margins that anyone reasonable would describe as very close)

Just to reiterate : you've been repeatedly making a claim that is simply not represented by the data that you are referencing. I'm more than happy to break it all down for you, because now we know for sure that what you're saying just isn't factually accurate. The overwhemling majority of those polled had the fight close. Over 60%. That's giving you every benefit of the doubt, treating all the 8-4s to TG as wide decisive G wins. I hope that you learned something from this and now you know how to tally up data and calculate the percentages.

This has been very useful because it shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that what you have been saying all this time just isn't supported by the data that you've been going off of. As you know, I'd prefer to discuss waht happened in the ring, but you didn't want to do that, every time I pressed you on going through the rounds you ran away or came up with some excuse to avoid talking about the rounds. But that's OK, that's too hard for you to do. (I understand why, you don't want to rewatch it again and have to relive TG getting rocked by those Canelo uppers and hard right hands, understandable) This was really a much easier and more effective way to show just how close it was because the data doesn't lie and you can't talk your way out of that. But it will be interesting to see what you come up with now that you've been schooled once again, this time much more decisively, probably you'll pull out some more your go-to buzzwords like "relax" "embarrass" etc that you pull out whenever you're getting schooled on here.

 

Lol. I've watched it 3 times already. I don't need to watch it 4th time. That's obviously something you need to do...lol. Which makes sense because you are looking for anything possible that Alvarez did well that you can highlight and repeat in your posts defending why he "didn't lose" to Golovkin. That's what I mean....you don't even see it but you are trying way too hard bro. Everyone else sees it when they read your posts but you. Blind loyalty. It's a real thing man and your overly weighted posts proves that.

I forgot you are a self proclaimed "boxing guru". AHAHA! This sh*t had me in tears....that and the "schooling" comment. C'mon shadow...Tell me you aren't this lame in real life? You're a cornball man. Please....where's the "short bus"to that school you are talking about? I gotta check it out. I'll look out for you. You don't even have to tell me which one you are....Either you'll be the one rockin' the helmet or the one in the wheelchair. LOL.

I'm just playing man. I had to poke fun a little bit because you can't take yourself so seriously. "Boxing Guru". Haha. You clown.

In all seriousness.

Just one online poll to consider

In an anonymous online poll, a whopping 81% of the people polled thought GGG won the fight. Only 9% thought Canelo won, and 10% thought it was a draw.

9%
Canelo Alvarez
(342 votes)

81%
Gennady Golovkin
(3112 votes)

10%
Draw
(386 votes)

3840 votes total were submitted in this online poll.

 

When Saul gets up in the morning and walks past his sock drawer to brush his teeth, he never forgets to say "s'up" to Shadow who sleeps amongst his undies. Alvarez is polite that way, hat tip.

 

OMFG!!!!!

I found a Canelo fan who doesn't want an immediate rematch!!!!!

"If I'm handling Canelo, I have him box the winner of this fight, snag that WBO trinket, then rematch Golovkin with every marble on the line in the second half of 2018. If Lemieux beats Billy Joe, that's a common opponent GGG and Canelo will share. If Billy Joe beats Lemieux, that's the guy Golovkin had his eyes on. Either scenario makes a tasty rematch marinade."

[url]https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/canelo-to-be-ringside-at-lemieux-saunders.596807/#post-18862474[/url]

CANELO FANS ARE TERRIFIED OF THE IMMEDIATE REMATCH!!!!!!