Nat Fleisher's Top 10 Heavyweights

Your right of course but in '68 Liston was still very much viewed as a pariah due to his 1st round debacle against Ali and not just by Nat. He had jettisoned himself permanently from being a serious contender and most of the boxing fraternity just wanted him to go away.

 

Actually, old Nat did indulge in an occasionally glass of sherry and took a sleeping pill to help him sleep. But otherwise, was as clean as can be.


[url]https://www.si.com/vault/1962/08/06/616495/mr-boxing-himself[/url]


"I keep to a steady routine. I don't smoke or drink. My drinking is confined to ginger ale and an occasional glass of sherry. I get up at 5, at 5:30 I have breakfast, and I get the 6:45 train in, arriving at the office between 7:20 and 7:30. I'm a person who doesn't need a lot of sleep. I require every night at least one barbiturate to put me to sleep"



He was one of my heroes when I was growing up in Brooklyn back in the day.

As for his list, I'm not entirely in accord with it. But I wonder - since he lived until 1972, did he alter it in any way? Can't seem to remember if he did. And I can well imagine that Ali would have been included if so.

 

He was staunchly against adding Ali to his list. He stated a number of times, to do so, would mean removing Marciano from his list. There was never such a thing as saying, well maybe you need to reshuffle your list a little and keep Marciano and Ali. I remember as a kid seeing that list and thinking to myself, 'Yeah right, if Fitzsimmons was fighting Liston I would have to say to the ref, hey dude, you'd better keep a close eye on this one or the 167 lb. dude is gonna get killed." Funny thinking about that now. But as to your question did he reshuffle the list from time to time. I would say yes, because the list was originally done in '58, but Eder Jofre is on his list so he would have had to have added him in the early to mid-sixties.

 

He turned me off with his whole follow another sport rap to people who disarmed with him. On the other hand he had some interesting stories and he likely did little to get booted by some clown whose sole contribution is to speculate about fighters having a glass jaws.

 

Right! It's all subjective...nobody's right...nobody's wrong...we all have our own opinions...even Nat Fleischer . He saw lots of these guys in the flesh....where we know them from B&W photos..and grainy footage...

 

Liston was ...and is...looked upon as a QUITTER!!!

 

There are boxing historians who say that if Ali never came back in 1970 after being stripped of the title for refusing to be drafted into the Army in 1967...that his title run up to the time was nothing special...Liston quits in Miami in '64...takes a dive up in Maine in 1965...going 12 rounds with a past his prime Floyd Patterson...Brian London....Cleveland Williams...who was 9 yrs older than Ali...Zora Folley...who was 11 yrs older than Ali...being floored by 185 pd Henry Cooper...etc. These were moments that weren't going to cement your legacy in boxing history, It wasn't until the Frazier fights...Norton...George Foreman...that people changed their opinion on Ali's place in history....but when he did his rankings in 1968...Ali was thought of as a light hitting heavy who was fast on his feet and not much else.

 

Is Duran?Mosley?Arguello?

Liston didn't quit with a broken jaw,[Marshall]or a broken nose [Williams.]

 

Patterson wasn't past prime against Liston, to suggest so is ridiculous.Floyd was 27 years old,after the Liston defeats he would fight on for a further 10 years! Having 22 fights and losing only to Quarry, Ellis [debateable]Alli x2 ,Except for 3 years he was ranked in the top ten for every one of those years.

 

In all fairness Liston didn't do anything as champion except KO Patterson

 

Ya but losing to Prime time the best HW of all time at 35 yrs old, 5 years past your prime .. I think most if not all would suffer the same fate.. And did anyone really think that Liston was going to KO Patterson twice so fast ,, You have to admit it was impressive

 

Well this was prior to the modern era of super heavies. It's as if a man can't be a great heavy unless he weighed 230+ pounds and fought in color or was Mike Tyson l

 

My grandson will say "LOL, Lewis was knocked spark out by "tiny" 220 pound, old time heavyweight Oliver McCall who would not be top 50 today . Therefore, Lewis could never beat modern heavyweight X".

 

GREATEST EXPLANATION FOR LISTON'S PLACE IN HISTORY I HAVE EVER HEARD. KUDOS

 

Great stuff!