I know this wasn't directed at me but I do remember reading an article where Joe Louis had said that the last time he truly felt like himself was the Tami Mauriello fight. I believe that was around `46.
Cooper was a bit fragile mentally, I think. Stupid thing to say in the light of the brutal war he had with Mercer but imho after that fight the soul was sucked out of him. I think that if Bert got the idea in a fight that he couldn't win, he just gave up. Against Sanders he put up a respectable show but after he found out that he couldn't hurt Sanders and after Corrie dropped him, he just said "screw this" mentally and gave up. Could be the same thing vs Foreman.
Against Walcott Louis was where Ali was against say Ron Lyle. He was good enough to win his title back that's for sure. Against Charles Louis was where Ali was for the last Norton fight. Good enough to beat anyone but the absolute best. Charles beat a better man than people realise. Joe was knocking out Elmer Ray, Valentino and Nino Valdes going into their fight. So yes Louis was past his best but he was still a top fighter.
Yes I think that was the last time Joe was able to call on his magic the instant he needed it. He was able to come back at Mauriello when he was hurt in an absolute flash just like he was against Max Baer in the first round all those years earlier. Both times it prevented him from getting decked. In the Walcott fight he was getting decked at those moments and having to work his way back into it like everyone else has to. I don't think it made him normal or less ordinary because he still had a lot of tools. it just took longer to get the job done. When he caught up with Walcott he knew what to do. And there was enough of it still there to do it. He maintained that level with good exhibition results. Knocking out guys like Elmer Ray, Nino Valdes and pat Valentino in what were real fights in all but name. Charles dosnt get the credit for beating a fighter capable of knocking out Walcott, Ray, Valdes and Valentino in the run up to their match. The Charles fight possibly took more of an edge off Louis. Physically there was no real respite. Joe was straight back into the ring with good fighters and continued to fight non stop until Rocky beat him. He was active enough to be in serious Ring shape but there was not enough magic there for him to shine as a great fighter should. He was good enough to win the fights he did. They were still worthy of the rating he had. But he was not the magic Brown bomber anymore. Maybe if Louis was beating on a bunch of guys like Tom Trim, frank Lux, bobby Crabtree, Ken Lucusta, J.B Williamson then Louis could have been made to look better. Maybe if Cesar Brion had somehow captured the title in a freak instance Joe would have became champion out of beating Cesar Brion. I don't think the circumstances or level of opposition allowed for Joe Louis to shine like Foreman did with less.
I like the concept I have issues with the timing. I think ALI'S Norton III is LOUIS' Walcott II. Shavers was was Ali's was Marciano. Louis didn't run the whole Ali gamut.
Yes it difficult to get it right I guess. The whole thing is really deceptive and reliant on quality of opposition to gauge clearly. I think Louis always was better in the ring than anything Ali delivered in the Evangelista, Spinks, Holmes and Berbick fights. But the big thing is, an old guy only looks as good as the other guy let's him. It's hard to look good against a prime Charles, prime Rocky, prime Spinks, prime Holmes and prime Berbick as an older guy. Foreman did not fight Lewis, Bowe, Tyson. People think Bald Foreman was more capable but the comparison would have been Ali coming back to face guys outside the 1980s top 20 and Joe Louis taking fights nobody wanted to see. When your name is Muhammad Ali or Joe Louis fans expect to see them in with a name guy no matter how old they are. Foreman was a curiosity. He played on that. All he had to do was stay busy in the minor league and wait until an unlikely champion came along that suited him.
Yes, I agree. Who even knows what he really had left for Jean Pierre Coopman? Was the Shavers fight a last great effort, pulling from his final reserves or is it an indictment against Shavers? Foreman played on the fact that he no longer resembled the young lion version. I remember Sports Illustrated seeming suprised that the preacher knew how to throw elbows.
Charles was fighting below the lhvy limit from1940 to 1948. Patterson from1952 to 1955. Charles was a great light heavyweight,maybe the best , and a very good heavyweight . Patterson was a decent light heavy and a very good heavyweight. Spot the difference? Got any more jokes?