Expert Opinions on Prime Liston VS Ali

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Nov 22, 2017.


Prime Liston VS Ali

  1. Liston by KO

    15.8%
  2. Liston By TKO

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Liston by UD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Liston by MD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Liston by SD

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Draw

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Ali by KO

    5.3%
  8. Ali by TKO

    15.8%
  9. Ali by UD

    52.6%
  10. Ali by MD/SD

    10.5%
  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Fight Advantages:

    Hand Speed-Ali, Boxing Ability-Ali, KO Power-Liston, Chin-no advantage, Size-Liston, Defense-Ali, Endurance-Ali, Adaptability-Ali, Foot Speed-Ali, Strength-Liston, Jab-Liston, Cuts-No Advantage, Reach-Liston 84”, Ali 78”, Body Attack-Liston:

    Total: 6-1-6 Draw


    Jim Carney, Author and Boxing Expert:

    When this same matchup came out as the final bout in my heavyweight tournament that was published several years ago in the Cleveland Tab, my colleague Mansfield Frazier expressed the thought that it was somewhat of a letdown having a final between two men who had fought already.

    Perhaps he was right, Liston was out of shape, overconfident and past his prime. And the shoulder injury that caused him to quit in his corner was almost certainly genuine. The Liston of 1965 was definitely past his prime and whatever was going on, the referee should not have called it a kayo when Ali refused to go to a neutral corner.

    The Liston of 1958-63 was a bruiser's bruiser. If the tournament contained only sluggers, I'd pick him as the second most likely (after JIm Jeffries) to come out on top. Sonny appeared to be courageous, indestructible and unstoppable in slugger-to-slugger confrontations. But his bouts with Eddie Machen and Bert Whitehurst along with Ali and frustration in sparring with the tall, awkward Ernie Terrell indicate that he could become frustrated.

    But still, this time Ali is facing a prime and hungry Liston. Muhammad is staggered a number of times and perhaps floored once. Most of the rounds are competitive. But Ali stays a step or two ahead, wins most of them and takes a hard fought but decisive and definitely unanimous decision.

    Moontan, boxing expert at Heavyweightaction.com

    A very interesting matchup for the finals, it’s a rematch of their 1964 heavyweight title fight. Neither fighter was really challenged coming through the tournament which is also surprising. What would be different this time as compared to their first match-up between the two greats”. First off I think a younger Liston would have been a much better opponent for Ali this time around and Liston would not be the overwhelming favorite as in the first fight. I see Liston showing much more respect for Ali throughout the fighting and pacing himself much better and also he would be much more prepared both physically and mentally for this fight. Whether he would let Ali get inside his head in this fight like he did the first time remains to be seen. I see a truly a great fight with Ali hitting the canvas and Ali winning a very close decision because of his speed and athletic ability. Liston stays upright the entire fight but his face shows the ware of Ali’s punches.



    Experts Predicted Outcome: Ali is the winner in the Finals 2-0

    Jim Carney author Ali 15-D

    Moontan, expert Ali 15-D
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  2. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    More than the opinions I want to see who the experts are ! :tmnt::treadmill::tmnt:
     
  3. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm not sure when Liston's prime was, or should have been?
    Given what we saw, a 59-60 Sonny vs. a 66-67 Ali would have been a heck of a fight; perhaps Ali getting the nod but I'm still of the opinion that, had Sonny been moved along quicker, he may have hit a 'prime' around 55-56 but that's just speculation. My $0.02
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Looking at their performances going in to this fight, Clay was the one furthest from his prime. So prime for prime Ali makes Liston hit even more air, then stops him when he starts to tire.

    I can easily buy that Liston wasn't in optimal shape in 1964, but the past prime thing seem a bit more of manufacture in hindsight.
     
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  5. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I'm genuinely curious to know the criteria by which Perry was banned but not this tiresome jerkoff.
     
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  6. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Liston's prime was around 1959/1961 before injuries started setting in.
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  7. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Wow a curse word? That's against the rules maybe I should be a fairy like you and go report it? :gey:

    If you think perry shouldn't be banned but i should that tells you where your heads at too.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  8. 5016

    5016 Member Full Member

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    What did listen ever do to show he was capable of beating the consensus #1 or #2 heavyweight ever?
     
  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Agreed. Even in '60 he was showing signs of decline (mind you still a very good fighter).
     
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  10. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He probably listened in on their phone calls and got inside info...that's what listen does, good point. :monoloco:
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Ali was 2 years away from his prime. Liston was perhaps 5.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Think I preferred the trolling!
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That is something you make up now because you like him. Give my one source who said that at the time, before he met Clay. If you had said in January 1964 that Liston was five years past his prime, you'd be laughed out of the room.

    His two best performances were both in the 1,5 years before the Clay fight. His arguably best was seven months before.
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Liston had been ducked for so long that he'd actually passed his prime by the time he met Patterson! Their is absolutely NOTHING to suggest he was prime for either Ali fight.
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You have to wonder how many successful defences he might have made of his crown,had he gotten his title shot earlier? Patterson,Johannson,Machen,Folley,Terrell,Williams,Harris?
    I don't think anyone would now be calling placing him highly ludicrous if he had received his chance sooner.
    Just my take on things.