how great would marciano be if he wasnt undefeated??

For me if Rocky had 5 points losses on the way up it wouldn't alter my rating of him. As long as it diddnt happen at world level and he diddnt get ko'd it's irrelevant for me. I get the lay man would disagree and therefore he would appear lower on general ATG lists.
Fighters need to learn there trade, they can have the odd off night, be on the receiving end of a bum decision or meet someone at the wrong time on the way up when they are not quite ready, bad management etc.
Everyone is human after all.
Rocky and anyone else should be judged on how great they were at there peak i.e. Champion.
Marciano proved beyond doubt he was the best of his era as champ so therefore his greatness should be unaffected if he lost a few decisions on the way up.
Nobody says Hagler and Monson weren't the best of there eras and they both had dots on there records albeit they had longer at the top than the Rock.

 

And you won’t challenge primo being fake baloney

 

I agree it certainly doesn't do his standing in history any harm that's for sure!
However it could be argued Lennox Lewis standing is enhanced because he avenged his ko losses,while he was champion, with kos.

 

It would make a big difference in people's minds if Marciano had one or more losses. If Frazier had retired undefeated after the first Ali fight, he would be considered the best ever by some, but now no one thinks that.

 

That is exactly how people should view the matter, but unfortunately, not how many do view the matter.

 

The best tradesmen in the world wasn't the best at what he does while serving his apprenticeship! That's where he makes his mistakes and learns his trade fighters are the same

 

Not true.smaller guys regularly beat me up in sparing.Haha

 

You won’t get a reply from these guys. I have tried before...

 

Primo Carnera vs. Max Baer was fixed.
In "The Harder They Fall."

 

I tell you what I understand, I understand Rocky being #3 in an ATG list seems to irk you somewhat.

You seem excited over a fantasy where only the casual sports fans would see Rockys stature nose dive in polls rather than the anoraks who know the difference.

I also understand you are happy for the legitimacy of Primo Carnera to be attacked during a day and age where there is an almost universal acceptance of size over ability.

 

Yes. And so were a few of Primos wrestling bouts. Maybe that’s where the confusion started?

 

Not from me and a few others on here, clearly.

 

Yes there are anoraks and then there are anoraks.

There are the anoraks who believe Big is best and then there are anoraks who believe everything is going backwards. The truth is perhaps somewhere in the middle and above that there are rare exceptions.

I recently posted film of Bivins and Cesar Brion after they lost to joe Louis. I was deafened by the lack of response. The one poster who initially admitted to not viewing them later viewed them and was surprised. How many never viewed them and will never be surprised? How many don’t want to be surprised?

Ultimately everyone here will never unanimously agree Rocky would go down in the ratings if Marciano was not unbeaten. It would depend where the defeats appeared on Rockys record and by what means. Several posters have already voiced this.