how great would marciano be if he wasnt undefeated??

That is true...I have a stuffed Grandpa ...put a a hot blond curly wig on that old sly fox and he becomes Grandma. Hot to trot 6 footer too particularly with a martini and some lip stick on that old B...

 

There are people who think that The Rock would have a chance against Liston. Remember....as champ...Liston QUIT WHILE SITTING ON HIS STOOL!!! Up in Maine in May 1965...he took A DIVE against the light hitting Cassius Clay. There was a bit of the 'dog" in Liston....no QUIT in Marciano!!!

 

Well unfortunately you fail to understand yet again.

I have Rocky around #5 now which is not far from #3 given Ali and Louis are considered in a bracket of their own for top 2.

I had him #3 for a long long long time. I still could slip him back ahead of Holmes down the track, who knows.

What does irk me is when people resort to blatant BS and run down a fantasy opponent, holding him to a totally different standard than their norm.

I hope you never put yourself in the category as an anorak who would know a difference. You are blatantly biased for and against certain fighters and it stands out like the proverbial.

I get excited when you get called out and exposed beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Well firstly i never pronounced myself to be the forums guardian angel for all things unfair.

Secondly Primo doesn't overly interest me, i don't think he was overly amazing and his career is a bit clouded.

Thirdly anyone would know size has to be backed by ability. Primo lacked substantially ability wise when put beside guys like Lewis and Bowe as was shown by the recent poll and numerous pages of talk.

Also why would anyone feel the need to overly get involved with that particular post? Did it really warrant panic? McGrain derailed it with 4 words for heavens sake.

I also don't see you running around big upping Tyson, Liston and Foreman when similar statements are made. Why is that?

 

Size isn't everything but you need certain abilities to survive or avoid punches to give yourself a shot to land yours.. If size is that vastly different.One thing is speed more than anything than timing when making up significant distance.That's why 5'10 Tyson was so effective...SPEED.

I think Marciano has a 40% chance to defeat 60's Ali BC of holes he had but Marciano is outmatched in many matches with guys who can really hit hard.

 

I never resort to BS. I never get personal with posters. If I produce reasoning behind a statement it just seem to rub people up the wrong way if they cannot find a legitimate way to disagree with it. On this thread I said Rocky still cleaned out a division. Is that blatant BS or just something you disagree with?

when was I exposed on this thread? One poster said Marcianos unbeaten status is a “huge factor” in his standing. About five posters agree with me that it would not make a blind bit of difference to his standing if he was 47-2 since he still cleaned out a division and would have retired as champion. Huge factor or not Rocky would stil be top five. One guy said so long as Rocky was not knocked out and he was not beaten for the title it would make no difference.

well you would think so wouldn’t you but it is not the case. just today some guy said you only had to be big to get a rating in the 1930s. It wasn’t true then. It isn’t true now. Nobody attacked the guy for being a troll. He believed it.

Every rated Heavyweight today lacks substantially ability wise compared to Bowe and Lewis. Those two are unicorns among jumbo heavyweights. Primo Carnera compares favourably with every other 6’6” 260 pounder in history even after all those years.

 

Oh please.

You are BS'ing right now. You've (insultingly) called me johnthomas numerous times. You labelled a guy BlackCrud a day or so ago. You labelled a poster a "clown" in this thread.

You tried to tell all and sundry Foreman never beat anyone in the ring top 10 in his comeback etc etc etc

P.S. Call me what you like i give as good as i get if need be. Don't try and play the victim tho.

Where did i say that is BS? Did i say you BS every post? Do you think you can pick out one little point and it exonerates you from all other posts?

Who said you were exposed on this thread?

Name the five posters please.

So you are stating Primo compares favorably to the likes of Wlad, Vitali, Joshua and Fury? Please explain.

 

people need a thicker skin around here if clown or jokey interpretations of posters names is seen as some kind of vicious personal attack.

Foreman beat the champion (an accidental and weak champion) without facing current rated contenders in Ring Magazine. He leap frogged over All of them to land a title fight on the back of a loss, with just one win to his name in two and a half years. It’s not BS.

you implied it.

I assume the five posters who liked my first post on this thread agreed with what I was saying. Moorlocks, barberboy, reznick, lloydturnip, Brixton bomber.

Fury beat Wladimir. Primo compares favourably with Carnera. Right now Joshua would lose to the kind of guy Fury was the night he beat Wladimir. That’s not unreasonable.

 

Well stop playing the victim when people call you a troll etc.

I reckon you will find the champ title was vacant.

Not in any way, shape or form did i imply it happened on this thread.

I bet you did because there sure ain't any hardcore proof 5 posters agreed.

You avoided the question like the plague and have mixed up Primo and himself.

This is what you said

Again, you are stating Primo is better than Wlad, Vitali, Joshua and Fury.

Can you explain this claim coherently?

 

I did. Lewis is better than all of them but he’s rare like a unicorn. Primo fits right in with all the others. He compares favourably.

 

According to his manager about a third of them.Certainly one could name a few without trying too hard.
Big Boy Peterson x2
Young Stribling x2
Elzier Rioux
Neil Clisby
George Godfrey
Farmer Lodge
Ace Clark
Leon Chevalier
George Trafton
Chuck Wiggins

Proof I have none. Just as I can't prove Kovalev quit cold against Ward,I just believe he did.

 

QUOTE="reznick, post: 18890903, member: 54206"]Primo Carnera vs. Max Baer was fixed.
In "The Harder They Fall."[/QUOTE]
No it wasn't.

 

Why not add the loss he should have had been inflicted upon by Ted Lowry....a guy with 57 defeats!

 

Film evidence doesn't always give all the facts though, and some of the facts surrounding Marciano's so called great wins, need a little explanation. Walcott was old and already had 16 losses(17 by the time of the rematch) but was still easily outboxing him. A 37 going 13 hard rounds is going to get tired, so an exhausted Walcott was finally KO'd. Ezzard Charles was really a light heavy and was at his peak as such, as were Archie Moore (19 losses at the time)and Don Cockell. Louis was champ for 10 years and was starting to look bad BEFORE he retired for two years and came back to a loss. It is important to note that when he came back, he no longer had his trainer, and he trained at home. He was 49-0 and people make a big deal about it, yet criticize people like Deontay Wilder for lack of quality opposition! Let us not forget Marciano fought guys with as many as 57 losses and that guy with 57 losses should have been given the decision over Rocky. It is not how many you beat, but who you beat and how you beat them.

 

I think that we are talking two or three fights at the most, where there is any sort of evidence that stacks up.

 

Why do you say it as if you're trying to tell me what to think and what to feel?

There has never been a super heavyweight that was 6'7 265 that would have beaten Marciano. Not one.